TheEngineer
15 years ago
If we're going to have little Daves running around, might as well make sure they're well looked after and healthy little buggers!

One major difference between vehicle toxins and second hand smoke is that, for one thing, smoking occurs during enclosed (or more hopefully) open public spaces where people dwell, such as a home, in a restaurant, at a college/university, etc. You don't have cars idling in the middle of a pub, or down at the bleachers when watching a Packers game.

Furthermore, the choice of smoking is voluntary and entirely predicated on the desire to smoke. The purpose, for the vast majority of vehicle owners is as a method of transportation; people don't own cars so they can smell fumes. Thus the act of smoking in a public place constitutes a voluntary engagement, disregarding the effects caused unto others, by smoking. This is especially sad when parents smoke in front of children. Not only does it set a bad example but it also materially affects their health. I hope nobody here subjects their children to their own smoking. It is unfortunate that carbon monoxide is so noxious and toxic, but the auto industry is close to developing green cars which produce far less pollutants. While there may be tobacco manufactures interested in going green, it is far less evident to me. What I see from them is the continual pursuit of money at the expense of its customer's health. Its employees are still extensions of the firm; people work at their job because their desire to earn money overrides the ramifications of the product to which they aide in manufacturing. I can appreciate that many have no choice but to work there given their financial situation, so I hope it does at least enter their conscious at some point in their lives how their contribution to a tobacco firm has benefited humanity.

As an interesting aside, I first "smoked" when I was 3 years old. My father apparently gave me a puff which (naturally) I coughed up. Haven't ever picked up a cigarette. The smell puts me off.
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Dulak
15 years ago

If we're going to have little Daves running around, might as well make sure they're well looked after and healthy little buggers!

One major difference between vehicle toxins and second hand smoke is that, for one thing, smoking occurs during enclosed (or more hopefully) open public spaces where people dwell, such as a home, in a restaurant, at a college/university, etc. You don't have cars idling in the middle of a pub, or down at the bleachers when watching a Packers game.

Furthermore, the choice of smoking is voluntary and entirely predicated on the desire to smoke. The purpose, for the vast majority of vehicle owners is as a method of transportation; people don't own cars so they can smell fumes. Thus the act of smoking in a public place constitutes a voluntary engagement, disregarding the effects caused unto others, by smoking. This is especially sad when parents smoke in front of children. Not only does it set a bad example but it also materially affects their health. I hope nobody here subjects their children to their own smoking. It is unfortunate that carbon monoxide is so noxious and toxic, but the auto industry is close to developing green cars which produce far less pollutants. While there may be tobacco manufactures interested in going green, it is far less evident to me. What I see from them is the continual pursuit of money at the expense of its customer's health. Its employees are still extensions of the firm; people work at their job because their desire to earn money overrides the ramifications of the product to which they aide in manufacturing. I can appreciate that many have no choice but to work there given their financial situation, so I hope it does at least enter their conscious at some point in their lives how their contribution to a tobacco firm has benefited humanity.

As an interesting aside, I first "smoked" when I was 3 years old. My father apparently gave me a puff which (naturally) I coughed up. Haven't ever picked up a cigarette. The smell puts me off.

"TheEngineer" wrote:



Nicely put +1
dhazer
15 years ago
Another thing people feel free to not mention but i will. Alot of people cut us smokers down but yet won't thank us for keeping your damn taxes down.

Lets take a look at Pa alone: This will certainly be a controversial, contentious issue," he said. But he also noted that there's an element of fairness at stake cigarettes are already taxed at $1.35 per pack and the governor would like to increase that tax to $1.45

Rendell pitched the tax anew in his budget address 36 cents an ounce on loose tobacco and 36 cents per 10 cigars and said it could raise $50 million in a full year.



then you add on this: Federal cigarette tax is $1.01 per pack


Thats $2.46 a pack of smokes of tax money the non smokers don't have to pay. So you ban smoking guess what is after that they will start taxing the hell out of alcohol, so then what we should ban booze also cuz that kills more people than cigs do.


Ya ya i get the health thing but gimmie a break anything you touch can cause you to die. Hell they are saying to much milk is not good for you, but yet back when i was a kid the slogan was milk does the body good.


Just wanted to throw out a different look at things. Now about the smoking in stadiums i think its backwards any hows. I have to laugh at these places that have smoking in a certain section under the bleachers but you can't smoke in the wide open air lol.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Rockmolder
15 years ago
So we have to thank you for letting us go throug health risks because you pay a lot of taxes? By all means, stop smoking, I'll pay a couple of Euro's more a year.

As for the car argument. First of all, a great post The Engineer. Second of all, taxes on fossil fuels are quite high aswell. We used to pay 48% excise(?) tax, 16% regular tax and the rest went towards the company selling it. And that was in 2005.

Both are bad, but cars are a necessity in some cases, smoking is never.
Cheesey
15 years ago
Like i said........if you don't want to be around smoke, don't go where they allow smoking.
Pretty simple if you ask me.
WHY do we need laws about it?

Thats what i do.........i stay away from places where they smoke.
Problem sloved.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I do not buy this idea that whiffing secondhand smoke is somehow worse than directly inhaling a vapor that has several thousand carcinogenic compounds.

I want to see the research studies that supposedly corroborate this idea that I personally believe is propagated by special-interest groups for their own benefit.
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TheEngineer
15 years ago

I do not buy this idea that whiffing secondhand smoke is somehow worse than directly inhaling a vapor that has several thousand carcinogenic compounds.

I want to see the research studies that supposedly corroborate this idea that I personally believe is propagated by special-interest groups for their own benefit.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Remember that those that inhale second hand smoke do not have the benefit of having the smoke filtered through the cigarette.

http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/fsh233266.pdf 

Something that took me 3 minutes to find. If it weren't for two exams this week I'd trawl through the thousands of articles supporting the notion that secondhand smoke negatively impacts on health.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I don't dispute that there are negative effects associated with inhaling secondhand smoke -- one of the reasons why I avoid smoky environments whenever possible. I'm objecting to this hyperbolic notion that it's somehow MORE dangerous to inhale a relatively minuscule volume of secondhand smoke versus directly inhaling the smoke from as many as 20 or more cigarettes a day. One would have to go out of his way to inhale unnaturally vast quantities of air at close proximity for probably hours a day to even remotely approximate the amount of fumes a smoker takes in.

Not all cigarettes have filters, and pipes and cigars certainly do not.
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TheEngineer
15 years ago

I don't dispute that there are negative effects associated with inhaling secondhand smoke -- one of the reasons why I avoid smoky environments whenever possible. I'm objecting to this hyperbolic notion that it's somehow MORE dangerous to inhale a relatively minuscule volume of secondhand smoke versus directly inhaling the smoke from as many as 20 or more cigarettes a day.

Not all cigarettes have filters, and pipes and cigars certainly do not.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Obviously the argument isn't between a pack-a-day smoker and the occasional SHS non-smoker. If you normalise the amount inhaled, be it by molarity, parts per million, mg/L, whatever the measurement happens to be that explains the differential in carcinogenic properties between volumes generated from a filtered cigarette and secondhand smoke, then it is possible to say whether SHS smoke is or isn't more dangerous than directly smoking a cigarette (or concentration and chemical composition of SHS smoke vs direct smoking). As for results of that, I have none. If and when I have time I'll try and dig up something along those lines, as I'd be quite interested in finding out based upon pure chemistry and physics - there be no mothers against smokers agenda there.
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dhazer
15 years ago
I just don't get it because you don't smoke means noone should have the right to smoke? So if you drink and i don't then they should ban drinking would that be fair to you? Like cheesey says if you don't like smoke don't go in places you know they are smoking. i mean what s the image of a bar ( a smoke filled pub) Next person that walks up to me and tries to tell me my cig smoke is killing them i will grab them by the back of the neck and hold their faces by my tailpipe and say their now i am.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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beast (27-Apr) : Yeah, but also some of the wording suggestions Jax only pranked called the QB, not the others... and if he had an open spreadsheet & 3 calls
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