wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago

I've seen people jumping on the Titans for not challenging. I think that's wrong. We fans had the benefit of actually watching it. I credit the Packers for getting down the field, lined up and snapping the ball before Titans could review the play. I know that's not the en vogue or culture thing to do ... you know ... give a team credit when we can bash another team, but that's how I viewed it. I had a few rounds with some folks on Twitter about it too. They were saying it was dumb to not challenge it. They assumed that Vrabel SAW the RB step out of bounds and elected not to challenge it. There was absolutely no reason for Vrabel to throw the challenge flag. The play was on the opposite sideline. They didn't show it on the jumbotron.

The lack of challenging the play was more so good on the Packers hustling than it was a failure on Titans.


Edit, I just found this.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I know what you are saying Zero. I realize he didn't see the play. Many people don't realize that football fields are not table top flat. With some fields the crown is so large you can't see the other sideline. (old Cowboys stadium was like that. Favre said it took him a whole quarter to zero in on how to throw the ball on an out route.) AND not the least was the outstanding effort by the Packers to hustle down the field.

What I am saying is despite all these reasons, Vrabel still needed to take action. Look at the circumstances before him at that very moment and make a decision without the benefit of having indisputable evidence.

Why would a team run down the field? Is time about to expire in the quarter? No. On the play clock? No.
Do they want to avoid defensive substitutions? Perhaps.
Do they want to avoid a review? Perhaps.
Do teams normally run down the field without some specific reason? No.
Would it be more advantageous to GB or TN to not challenge? GB.
Would it be more advantageous to GB or TN if he challenged? Don't know.
Some other reason? Perhaps.

My point is, as the HC he needed to take the very small amount if information he had available, realized he isn't going to get the perfect answer and then make an action anyway. His non action was the worst case result. Most people with any kind of understanding would not have criticized him for tossing the red hanky. Even if he didn't win the challenge.

Once again, if I wasn't clear before, GB did an amazing job limiting the ability of TN to make a decision.

Great coaches don't let the other team dictate terms to them. MLF was the better coach last night all game long.

UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

I know what you are saying Zero. I realize he didn't see the play. Many people don't realize that football fields are not table top flat. With some fields the crown is so large you can't see the other sideline. (old Cowboys stadium was like that. Favre said it took him a whole quarter to zero in on how to throw the ball on an out route.) AND not the least was the outstanding effort by the Packers to hustle down the field.

What I am saying is despite all these reasons, Vrabel still needed to take action. Look at the circumstances before him at that very moment and make a decision without the benefit of having indisputable evidence.

Why would a team run down the field? Is time about to expire in the quarter? No. On the play clock? No.
Do they want to avoid defensive substitutions? Perhaps.
Do they want to avoid a review? Perhaps.
Do teams normally run down the field without some specific reason? No.
Would it be more advantageous to GB or TN to not challenge? GB.
Would it be more advantageous to GB or TN if he challenged? Don't know.
Some other reason? Perhaps.

My point is, as the HC he needed to take the very small amount if information he had available, realized he isn't going to get the perfect answer and then make an action anyway. His non action was the worst case result. Most people with any kind of understanding would not have criticized him for tossing the red hanky. Even if he didn't win the challenge.

Once again, if I wasn't clear before, GB did an amazing job limiting the ability of TN to make a decision.

Great coaches don't let the other team dictate terms to them. MLF was the better coach last night all game long.

Originally Posted by: wpr 


Take a lot of assumptions and throw the red flag? Do you see what you wrote down? Do you consider how it is to be in the moment? Does Vrabel call the defensive play? There's so much going on and armchair people just throw their fist of blame. I just ... it's wearing me out.

You even finish off saying great coaches don't let the other team dictate terms to them, but you're actually saying Vrabel should have done just that because the team was hurrying up down the field. So now (I'm going to REACH here) a coach should throw the challenge flag every time a team runs down the field to hurry up and call a play because they think they got the defense on the ropes?

I don't even think TV viewers got a good glimpse of Jones stepping out until after the ball was snapped and if we did it was literally seconds before it was snapped.

Sorry folks, I just can't get on this train. It is absolutely wrong and hindsight wisdom to fault Mike Vrabel for not challenging that play. The guy didn't even get a look at the replay in time and people wanna thrash him. It's just incredible to me.

Just throw the red hanky and then people will blast him for it if it doesn't go his way because he's a professional. It's absolutely a no-win situation with fans. People do not take a second to think. They just react. Why? Why is this the norm rather than taking a moment to try an understand what it is like in someone else's shoes? Because that would be compassionate and show empathy.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago

Zero, for me it wasn't so much Vrabel not seeing a clear cut call but more just not letting the game get away from his guys. You can't let Green Bay's offense get going again after pulling within 1 score.

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra 



Yes, let's fault the guy for being on the opposite sideline and not having a clear cut call that apparently none of the other Titans shouted to throw the red flag or to challenge it? Why can't we just credit the Packers for hustling their ass down the field, getting a play called and snapping the ball to avoid the challenge? Why can't give credit? Why do we have always knock someone down? Don't people get sick of this? Does it make someone feel better to bash a person for something the opponent could be credited for? This just does not make sense to me. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep. Damn snow plow trucks.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
4 years ago
I've derailed this at least two or three times ... gonna go for another just like ya motha!

Look at this... LOOK AT THIS!!!!

UserPostedImage
Mucky Tundra
4 years ago

Yes, let's fault the guy for being on the opposite sideline and not having a clear cut call that apparently none of the other Titans shouted to throw the red flag or to challenge it? Why can't we just credit the Packers for hustling their ass down the field, getting a play called and snapping the ball to avoid the challenge? Why can't give credit? Why do we have always knock someone down? Don't people get sick of this? Does it make someone feel better to bash a person for something the opponent could be credited for? This just does not make sense to me. Maybe I didn't get enough sleep. Damn snow plow trucks.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Yes Green Bay deserves credit for hurrying up and getting lined up. But like wpr pointed out, when the offensive line is hurrying downfield to line up after a play like that, there's usually something there.

You throw the challenge flag to help your defense, a defense that hadn't forced a punt at that point in the game (and they wouldn't for the whole night). Worst case is you lose a challenge and use the time to let your guys regroup. Keeping Green Bay out of the end zone is paramount at this point. Keeping it a one score game keeps the playbook open on offense. A two score game limits the Titans and a lot of their passing is built on the threat of Henry running the ball well. Green Bay scoring a touchdown robs the Titans of the momentum they had after scoring on their opening drive in the 3rd. If the Titans had a better D and had forced Green Bay off the field with some punts, I would agree with you on not challenging it.

This type of tactic isn't limited to football. Baseball managers come out to talk to pitchers to stall for a guy warming up in the bullpen. Basketball coaches will call a timeout to stop another team that's scored rapidly several times off easy baskets/easy transition points/stop a run from happening.

I also found Vrabels actions (I'm including the punt from the 30 here) odd since I thought he was good at managing games, like using loopholes to run the clock down . For a guy who out Belichek'ed Belichek in the playoffs, I found his choices a little puzzling.

(Hey look, I gave a reason for my criticism based on Vrabels past actions! It's like I wasn't bashing him for the sake of bashing him!)
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
Cheesey
4 years ago
“Damned if you do, Danes if you don’t”.
I’ve seen many times where an offense hurried to snap the ball after an iffy play. Many times the guy caught the ball, or didn’t step out of bounds.
The Titans coach probably didn’t want to chance wasting a time out that he expected to need later on. And he had to know a ref was right on top of the play and didn’t call Jones out of bounds. (And yes, the ref obviously missed it)
The Titans coaches up stairs had the best chance to buzz him and let him know to challenge. THEY missed it, and to me they deserve more blame for not seeing it sooner.
That’s my take, at least.
UserPostedImage
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
4 years ago
Cheesey chortled

The Titans coaches up stairs had the best chance to buzz him and let him know to challenge. THEY missed it, and to me they deserve more blame for not seeing it sooner.

Perhaps, but remember, it was on the Packer sideline and their eyesight may have been blocked by Packer players or sideline staff.

I am grateful that NBC was slow on the replays, which they were all night.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
4 years ago
I guess there is nobody assigned in their booth upstairs to watch for these things? Jones went over 1000 yds on this play.  EqSym_qXUAEniNM.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.
beast
4 years ago
St. Brown makes one play all year and suddenly he's better than MVS? What the hell?!?

No you're not always going to see the guy running the deep routes as they get extra Safeties on them and clear guys underneath. But since week 2 MVS has played 60% of the snaps each week. His snap count has been going down from when all the WRs were injured of 80% and 90% ... St. Brown has only gotten on the field for 20 snaps 3 times all year.

Though I still believe St. Brown could have a huge role in this offense as this offense usually has a star large slot WR or TE, and St. Brown can fit that mold perfectly and it's been disappointing he hasn't step up enough, and perfect time to with the TEs injured (Duraga, Sternberger at least).

That being said, MVS' speed is helping set up others and not just making plays for only himself. Plus this system seems to try to get the ball out quicker vs MM holding the ball longer to get the deep ball in.


UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
4 years ago
Whatever you want Zero is fine with me.

I had a fairly long response. I deleted it before even posting it. I am not looking for an argument.

Let me say again I was not condemning the coach. He had a few seconds to process what was going on, weigh his options and make his call. He made his decision. I personally feel it was the wrong one. You don't. You think it was a no win situation. I think it was a no lose situation. I think anyone who takes a job as a head coach knows they are going to be seconded guessed all the time. For some reason you feel it is unreasonable. I'm ok with your opinion.

If we can't discuss the various plays of a game without criticizing each other or saying we are not being compassionate when we express our views, then why bother coming to this or any website?

Lastly, yet again, saying he made the wrong call is not mutual exclusive of saying MLF and the Packers were excellent in their decision and execution to hustle down field.
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
dfosterf (6h) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (6h) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (7h) : *front four
Martha Careful (7h) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (14h) : *directions*
dfosterf (14h) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (14h) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
wpr (30-May) : It's all good.
beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.
wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.
Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??
Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa
beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text
beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him
wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Also notes he’s playing with more confidence.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : @AndyHermanNFL MLF says there was a time last year where Cooper was at 220 pounds. Now he’s at 240 and still flying around.
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : And don't even get me started on Frank Caliendos "impersonations"
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I got tired of them being circle jerks with them overlaughing at each others jokes.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : It used to be must watch TV for me. now it's "meh" maybe to hear injury update
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : I haven't watched the pregame shows in years and I don't feel like I've missed a thing
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Love says knee affected him all season, groin injury didn't help matters.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : I used to enjoy him on FOX Pregame. Now it's like a frat party of former Patriots.
Zero2Cool (28-May) : LaFleur on Watson: “Christian is doing outstanding. I would say he’s ahead of schedule.”
Martha Careful (28-May) : Bradshaw is a dumb ass cracker. I am so tired of his "aw shucks" diatribe. He should shrivel up and go away.
buckeyepackfan (28-May) : He wad all butt hurt because Aaron duped the media saying he was immunized.
buckeyepackfan (28-May) : Bradshaw needs to retire. He's been ripping on Rodgers ever since the covid crap. He was all hury
Zero2Cool (28-May) : Terry Bradshaw doesn't want Rodgers in Pittsburgh lol wow
Zero2Cool (27-May) : one day contract, which he also feels is pointless, but if Packers came to him, he would
packerfanoutwest (27-May) : Aaron Rodgers talks possibility of retiring with Packers, just another rumor
dfosterf (27-May) : Go watch 2001
Zero2Cool (26-May) : 1984
dfosterf (26-May) : That movie sent a chill through many. 1968.
dfosterf (26-May) : "Open the pod bay doors, HAL"
buckeyepackfan (25-May) : Haven't we all seen thus movie? It doesn't end well!! Lol
Zero2Cool (25-May) : lol Anthropic’s new AI model turns to blackmail when engineers try to take it offline
dfosterf (25-May) : Claude Opus 4
dfosterf (25-May) : AI system resorts to blackmail when its developers threaten to take it offline
beast (22-May) : Colts Owner Jim Irsay has passed away
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

21-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

20-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

19-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.