wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
4 years ago

Going for it on 4th down isn’t just good strategy. It’s good for your mental health. Green Bay Packers head coach Matt LaFleur is pretty great. I think we’re all in agreement at this point, and even if he still makes the occasional mistake, he seems like he learns from those mistakes. And boy, does he like analytics. I mean, he really likes them.


A look at "which teams follow the New York Times recommendations on 4th downs when they aren't trailing big?"The Packers are a *huge* outlier in terms of being willing to go for ithttps://t.co/wWjRiYp4wr  pic.twitter.com/N26tIOMjE7 — Computer Cowboy (@benbbaldwin) December 4, 2020 



I think that we sometime run into an issue in the analytics community of not communicating well about the consequences of risk and good versus bad decisions. When we advocate going for it on 4th down, it’s usually couched as “having gained X WP (winning percentage), and that number often isn’t that big. I recently wrote about a decision LaFleur made against the Jaguars that was called the worst decision of the week by EdjSports. That decision cost the Packers  about 18 points of Win Percentage, but if you don’t deal with numbers all the time that doesn’t really sound that bad.
We may be better served to use real life examples to demonstrate just how much these things matter, and what better way to do so, given that it’s Eagles Week, than bringing back the infamous “4th and 26” game of the 2003 season . You may not want to think about the 4th and 26 game and would prefer to put it out of your mind, but instead of doing that, I urge you to grab and hold onto that hate. Let it burn in you and think about every time over the past 16 years it’s been mentioned on a broadcast or by some insensitive git on twitter , and it caused you physical pain.
I watched the entire game again the other day because I wanted to revisit everything else that led up to and followed that play, and because I enjoy pain, apparently. That play never should have happened, and it never should have happened because of the punt that followed this play .

Brett Favre was so very close. He got kind of a bad spot, and the Packers were faced with a 4th and 1 decision in Eagle territory. If they go for it and pick up the first down, they almost certainly win the game. (Converting would have forced the Eagles to either use their final timeout or taken the clock to the 2-minute warning.) The Packers offensive line was excellent, as per usual, and featured Mark Tauscher and Chad Clifton at tackle, Marco Rivera and Mike Wahle at guard, and Mike Flanagan at center, with Bubba Franks at tighteEnd. Packer running backs were only stuffed for no gain or a loss 3 times in this game, though one of those was a 4th-and-1 carry at the Eagles 1-yard line near the end of the first half.
According to the Pro Football Reference Win Probability calclator , if the Packers go for it and make it, they have a 96% chance to win the game. If they fail, they still have a 73.4% chance to win the game. Punting from the 41 (which became the 45 with an intentional delay of game penalty) is very likely to gain you only 20 yards, and that is what happened here when Josh Bidwell couldn’t keep his punt out of of the end zone. The 20 yards of additional field position moved the Packers’ WP from 73.4% all the way to 80.76%.
We often see punting as the “safe” choice, but in this case it was almost certainly the risky one, and definitely the stupid one. On the very next play from scrimmage Duce Staley scampered 22 yards, getting back all of the yardage lost from the punt in a matter of seconds.
Mike Sherman was a bad coach who made bad decisions. I understand that we all know this and we get that it matters on a high level, but this particular decision mattered a lot. It’s very possible that it cost the Packers a Super Bowl  appearance, as the Eagles would go on to lose to a lackluster Carolina team in the NFC Championship  Game. More importantly, it caused a ton of people immense pain for decades.



The modern Packers have learned their lesson. On 4th and short they go for it more than than any other team. Be glad they do, so we don’t have to go through this again. Smart coaching matters.




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Continue Reading @ [url=https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/by-the-numbers/2020/12/5/22155885/packers-going-for-it-more-than-numbers-tauscher-sherman-lafleur-pain-duce-deuce-ahman-green-fredex]PaulNoonan 

PaulNoonan wrote:




I have liked the idea of going for it on 4th more often. Have to trust the offense will get it. Have to trust the defense if they don't.
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wpr
  • wpr
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4 years ago
The twitter chart that didn't post.




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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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