Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

Why in the hell did he feel he needed to have the arm on his side gardening?

"pack93z" wrote:



Apparently, according to the court transcript, the two neighbors are close friends, which leads me to suspect that this was in fact a setup -- and I say, more power to them. We need to have precedents set in this state.

The neighbor never claimed he felt in danger. He only asked the police department if it was legal to carry a gun openly on your property. The dispatcher's response: "We're sending someone out." They didn't even stop to ask him what was going on.

On the stand, he repeatedly stated that he never felt threatened, that he never saw his neighbor touch his weapon, that the weapon certainly never came out of the holster. He was just "afraid the gun might go off," which is clearly a preposterous rationale with the kind of holster the man had. So either the neighbor was an abject idiot, or they were deliberately trying to get the gun owner hailed into court.

Unfortunately, the judge refused to take the bait and didn't make any sort of ruling that would establish precedent.

It's an interesting take on civil disobedience: Protest by exercising your RIGHTS!
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Formo
16 years ago
Wow.

I know a more than a handful of people here that have their license to carry a gun, and they all have told me that in the class they had to take, tells them to carry with you EVERYWHERE you legally can.. mainly to get you used to it. So it becomes as 'normal' as your cell phone. The guy that's nervous carrying his weapon is the guy that gets himself or others hurt with it.
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dhazer
16 years ago

I really have to ask the question though, even though I am 100% pro gun.

Why in the hell did he feel he needed to have the arm on his side gardening?

Sounds a bit like he was pushing for a fight.. carry a gun if there is a purpose to carrying it.. not just to carry it for the carrying sake.

"pack93z" wrote:




I carry my 9 everywhere i go except for school and to the bank, but i have to have mine concealed. I also had to pay $20 for a carry permit, but i feel safe now when i go anywhere.

Btw does anyone have a link to the court transcripts i think one of my teachers would love to read it.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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Cheesey
16 years ago

I really have to ask the question though, even though I am 100% pro gun.

Why in the hell did he feel he needed to have the arm on his side gardening?

Sounds a bit like he was pushing for a fight.. carry a gun if there is a purpose to carrying it.. not just to carry it for the carrying sake.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Never know when someone's going to rob you. And it's always when you least expect it.

How many times have you heard the victim say something like "it was just a short walk to the post office. I can't believe I got mugged."

Ideally, you should be armed at all times. Had that been the case, violent crime in this country would be almost nil and everyone would be a lot more polite.

"pack93z" wrote:


Good points, as usual Zombie.
Think about it..........do you REALLY feel you should fear a person that is OPENLY carrying a gun? You KNOW that THEY are not the ones that are going to use it to commit a crime. The criminals keep their guns hidden, until they are in the process of committing a crime.
I have read stories where a person was in their yard, and someone walked into the house while the owner was in the backyard and robbed the guy. So why SHOULDN'T a person be prepared at ALL times?
The neighbor that was "worried"..........wouldn't you in FACT feel SAFER, knowing the neighbor you trusted had a gun? What if during the night someone broke into your house? You could run screaming to that house, and KNOW that your neighbor could protect you.
I have used a gun once to scare off some theives.......a 7mm Mauser rifle out my back door made them run off like the cowards they were.
You should have SEEN how fast they ran!!!! And even though it was loaded, i never pointed it at them.......just SEEING it was enough.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
In over 90% of the 2 million incidents a year in which a gun is used in self-defense, it is never fired. Most of the time it's never even shown. The words "I have a gun!" are usually sufficient.

A lot of people say we shouldn't have open carry because "this isn't the Wild West." Well, everyone carried openly in the Wild West, and guess what? The Wild West wasn't so wild after all. 

Fascinating reading.

By the way, Dhazer, if you do a search for that guy's name, you'll find accounts from people who watched the trial. Sadly, however, court transcripts are ridiculously expensive to obtain, so unless the case is appealed, no transcript will probably be forthcoming. It will simply sit on the transcriptionist's computer for a few months before being destroyed.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
Nonstop - Dang. That link is blocked (I'm at work).

That's something one of my History Professors told us, that the "Wild West" wasn't wild at all. Crime rates were WAY lower than they are today. The thing that made the "Wild West" wild were East Coach pulp fiction writers.

Kind of like how Hollywood blows everything out of proportion and the sheep believe them.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Just for you, Zombieslayer:

The Wild West was Much Safer than New York at its Tamest

Myth busting the Wild West.

In the cowboy towns that epitomized the Wild West: Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
Source.

Measured by murder rate, in 2007 New York was 6 times; DC, 31 times; Newark, 37 times and Baltimore, a staggering 45 times more wild than the Wild Wild West.

DC 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)



Also:

Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West'
February 17, 8:48 AM 74 comments

The dime store novel image of the West

These are interesting times in the fight to protect and enhance our rights as gun owners. In Wisconsin, we stand on the eve of an historic court ruling regarding open carry. In Texas, South Carolina, Oklahoma and Arkansas, local activists have succeeded in making their voices heard regarding restoring open carry to these otherwise gun-friendly states. With all of this pro-gun activity, it should come as little surprise that the anti-gun forces are out in-force repeating their aged mantra This isnt the wild west.
And this rhetoric is not limited to anti-gunners. Recently, I was quoted in a USA Today article about the open carry initiatives around the country and in that article, Texas Senator Jeff Wentworth (R), a supposedly pro-gun legislator denounced open carry saying "I think that's harkening too far back to the Wild West."

With all this talk of The Wild West, I thought it might be informative to look at the reality of crime in the wild west cattle towns and compare them to the peaceful streets of such eastern, gun-control paradises as DC, New York, Baltimore and Newark.

In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.

In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control paradise cities of the east:

DC 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
New York 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
Baltimore 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
Newark 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)

It doesnt take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to wild west levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.

The truth of the matter is that the wild west wasnt wild at all not compared to a Saturday night in Newark.



From one of the comments on the blog post:

Josh Says:
February 19th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Thats interesting, and reminds me of something Malcolm Gladwell mentions in his most recent book, Outliers. He mentions crime statistics for the South at one point in the book, saying that murder rates are/were higher in the South, but that property crimes and muggings lower. The research he cites in the book relates this fact to the code of honor popular in that culture (which comes from the Scots/Irish background of most of the residents, especially of the mountainous regions).

As long as both sets of data are statistically valid, they create an interesting portrait of human motivation.

It seems that, when everyone is heavily occupied with the business of survival, murder would be less frequent. The need to be able rely on your fellow human being in desperate times probably makes you less likely to kill him/her when you get upset. It does this by creating a necessary closeness between you, either literal physical closeness (small township), or metaphorical, in the sense of an empathic relationship to others in your situation.


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zombieslayer
16 years ago
Thanks Nonstop.
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dhazer
16 years ago
James Newcomb
JBS
Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Anyone who thinks that tighter gun control laws are the solution to the incident at Virginia Tech last week needs to visit Kennesaw, Georgia. The town passed its mandatory firearms law in 1982 in response to a law passed by Morton Grove, Illinois which banned guns as a way to reduce crime.

After the law was passed, the town witnessed a dramatic decrease in crime and has stayed low ever since. The law has also survived an increase in population from 5,000 in 1982 to over 30,000 today.

Robert Jones, president of the Kennesaw Historical Society, gives a unique and refreshing perspective for advocates of the Second Amendment. "People in Europe feel they need to be protected by the government. People in the U.S. feel they need to be protected from the government." Sounds radical in today's world where too many people only want government to protect them, doesn't it? Jones also adds that it is a great tourist attraction. "We're the town with the gun law," he said.

George Washington once said, "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." The right to own a firearm has been a staple of the American way of life ever since beginning of our country. President Washington said those words when the American people, by and large, were willing to accept the personal responsibilities necessary for liberty to prevail.




http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/250407crime.htm 



DO a search on Kennesaw, Georgia and read about the mandatory gun law you might like that.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
Thanks David. I know all about Kennesaw. Anti-gunners hate any mention of that place because it completely invalidates their arguments.
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