Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I'm surprised this case hasn't received more publicity. In Wisconsin, it is illegal to carry a weapon concealed, because we have a law that explicitly permits carrying weapons openly without registration, training, or permit. Unfortunately, in many jurisdictions, the police will arrest on sight someone carrying openly and charge them with disorderly conduct, which is what happened in this case. At least here the judge did the right thing, though he was a little bit of a coward in the way he went about doing it (refusing to set a precedent that would make future police harassment more difficult).

Wisconsin law forbids local municipalities to pass statutes that are more restrictive than state law, so hopefully we'll eventually get a state supreme court ruling striking down these absurdly broad disorderly conduct statutes that allow local police to arrest law-abiding citizens for no other reason than exercising their explicitly legal right to carry openly.

We do have an unusual state, though. You're perfectly within your rights to carry a weapon openly anywhere and everywhere (unless the police in your locality like to harass gun owners), but the moment you slip that gun in your pocket, you're breaking the law.

West Allis man not guilty in open carry gun case 
By Linda Spice of the Journal Sentinel
Posted: Feb. 17, 2009

West Allis - As Brad Krause planted a tree in his yard last summer, a neighbor noticed that in addition to a shovel, Krause had a tool not usually required for yard work - a gun in a holster.

Police arrived and gave Krause a ticket alleging disorderly conduct, launching a case that a national gun-rights group has been watching for months.

On Tuesday, Krause won acquittal in what some advocates say is one of the first so-called open-carry gun cases heard in a Wisconsin court.

Municipal Judge Paul Murphy said he had reviewed several state statutes and court cases related to the right to keep and bear arms. "There being no law whatsoever dealing with the issue of an unconcealed weapon or the so-called open carry is why we're here today," Murphy said.

In the end, he determined Krause's actions did not rise to disorderly conduct and found him not guilty.

City Attorney Scott Post declined to comment Tuesday.

Police responded to Krause's home in August after the neighbor called. They arrested Krause, gave him a disorderly conduct ticket and seized his gun.

Krause hired an attorney, Steven Cain, and fought the charge during a court trial in December.

After Murphy's ruling Tuesday, Krause said the significance of the case extends beyond gun rights.

"The reason people are upset about this is it's not about guns. It's about civil liberties. And we obviously have a property issue. There was no warrant issued, no exigent circumstances, no permission to enter the property, yet the police stormed in with guns drawn and put my life at risk," Krause said. Asked why he was carrying a gun to plant a tree, Krause said, "There's no requirement to justify why you're able to exercise constitutional rights. I and everyone else are able to go to church, they're able to vote, they're able to speak their mind. Even though the city might not like it, we have that right."

His attorney said the overarching issue in the case was whether it is legal to openly carry a gun.

"The law in Wisconsin really only limits concealed carry," Cain said. Cain argued that the U.S. Supreme Court decision last year that found Washington, D.C.'s gun ban unconstitutional concluded that open carry is "an individual right that shouldn't be abridged by law enforcement. That's what the case is generally all about."

West Allis Deputy Chief Rick Balistrieri said Tuesday's verdict will not change the way his officers respond to similar calls, noting they must assess all calls on a case-by-case basis, particularly when a gun is involved.

Krause's case had been one of several around the country followed closely and promoted by Virginia-based OpenCarry.org.

"Really, the larger issue is not even a gun rights issue," said organization co-founder John Pierce. "It's the issue of having a disorderly conduct statute that is a catch-all statute for otherwise legal behavior."


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Cheesey
15 years ago
Stoo-pid.
We all have the right to carry an unconcealed weapon, yet this poor guy gets busted........and the cops will KEEP harassing anyone they see with a gun.
Last i heard, the guy didn't get his gun back yet, either.
Plus he has to pay a lawyer, right?
The "anti-gun" idiots will just make SURE we keep getting harassed to the point where we willingly throw up our hands and surrender our rights as Americans.
Thats their goal anyway.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Yes, the judge told him that regaining his property would have to be a separate action.

One tactic I have read about is to file a stolen-property complaint against the arresting officers, under the rationale that they entered the property without a warrant and without permission and thus had no legal authority to confiscate the weapon. This technique has apparently been used with success in some other Wisconsin jurisdictions.
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Cheesey
15 years ago
Thats right.........the guy was on his OWN property. It's not even like he walked into a store armed (even though, if it was NOT concealed, it would still be legal, right?)
The man should be given his gun back, get a FORMAL apology from the cops AND the judge, and have all his legal fees paid by the state.
Thats B.S. that law abiding citizens have to worry about being harrased by "law enforcement officers".
We are losing our rights, and our freedoms, at a slow downward spiral.
If we don't band together on it, we will lose all our freedoms that thousands of men died for us to have.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
And people wonder why I hate cops. Here is example #42389452.

Note - the man was on HIS property. The cops did NOT have a search warrant. I bet you Krause was white. Had he been anything else, he would have been shot.

I think Krause should get the cops' personal cars until they give him his gun back.
My man Donald Driver
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Cheesey
15 years ago
I don't "hate cops", they are just doing what they are told to do. What i HATE is a "justice system" that ever let it get this far. The man should have NEVER had to even SEE a judge, he should have been given his gun back IMMEDIATLY, and apologized to. And the person that called it in? SHOULD have had the cops at his/her door telling them the man was exercising his RIGHTS as an AMERICAN and to leave him alone, or next time THEY will get a ticket for harassment.
Of course we all know that will never happen.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
Yeah, I should really tone down what I said. I've known some excellent cops before. I've known some cops who actually gave a dang about their community and contributed time.

But it's a crap shoot. I've also known some very racist cops.

The thing is, these guys weren't doing their job. Their job involves following the law, which says you don't go onto someone's property without a search warrant and steal their stuff.

But I guess these thugs think they're above the law, as a lot of cops do.
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Pack93z
15 years ago
I really have to ask the question though, even though I am 100% pro gun.

Why in the hell did he feel he needed to have the arm on his side gardening?

Sounds a bit like he was pushing for a fight.. carry a gun if there is a purpose to carrying it.. not just to carry it for the carrying sake.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
15 years ago

I really have to ask the question though, even though I am 100% pro gun.

Why in the hell did he feel he needed to have the arm on his side gardening?

Sounds a bit like he was pushing for a fight.. carry a gun if there is a purpose to carrying it.. not just to carry it for the carrying sake.

"pack93z" wrote:



Never know when someone's going to rob you. And it's always when you least expect it.

How many times have you heard the victim say something like "it was just a short walk to the post office. I can't believe I got mugged."

Ideally, you should be armed at all times. Had that been the case, violent crime in this country would be almost nil and everyone would be a lot more polite.
My man Donald Driver
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

I think Krause should get the cops' personal cars until they give him his gun back.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



And their women, to do with as he pleases.
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