Zero2Cool
5 years ago
I quoted this part because I was one who didn't think loss of Jordy Nelson was going to be that big of a hit to our offense with the likes of Adams, Cobb and Allison. After all, we watched Rodgers turn average WR into productive WR's for us (e.g. Jarrett Boykin comes to mind).

The best example of this, for me, is James Jones. He couldn't even make a roster one year after leaving us, only to return and get nearly a 1.000 yards in a season. There's been way too little effort to give Rodgers the weapons he needs, just because he's good enough without them.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



I wonder if it was actually Mike McCarthy who said to get rid of Jordy Nelson, and Aaron Rodgers knew that and that's why he was throwing the ball away so much. And all of his "gotta build trust with the WR's, gotta be at the right depth, right place, etc" comments and all that.

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".
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sschind
5 years ago

I quoted this part because I was one who didn't think loss of Jordy Nelson was going to be that big of a hit to our offense with the likes of Adams, Cobb and Allison. After all, we watched Rodgers turn average WR into productive WR's for us (e.g. Jarrett Boykin comes to mind).


I wonder if it was actually Mike McCarthy who said to get rid of Jordy Nelson, and Aaron Rodgers knew that and that's why he was throwing the ball away so much. And all of his "gotta build trust with the WR's, gotta be at the right depth, right place, etc" comments and all that.

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



If Rodgers is going to throw a hissy fit whenever we release one of his security blankets it doesn't show much leadership to me. If that is the case and you thought he threw the ball away a lot this year look out next year if they let Cobb go.

I'm also a bit concerned that you thought Boykin was average to begin with and was a productive WR for us.
Zero2Cool
5 years ago

I'm also a bit concerned that you thought Boykin was average to begin with and was a productive WR for us.

Originally Posted by: sschind 


You really missed the context that badly huh?

The point was we have had WR's produce above their (my opinion) talent level and I cited Boykin as an example that came to mind.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoykJa00.htm 
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earthquake
5 years ago
A lot of things are possible I suppose. I would tend to go with Occam's razor here though.

As far as the younger receivers needing more time to get on the same page, perhaps Rodgers said this simply because it is true? If we look at the early part of various WRs that GB has drafted they tend to not contribute much in the first year. It's reasonable to assume that the way the Packer's offense is designed and set up requires more experienced players, this is evident if we look at the receivers production. I recall various players and coaches mentioning precisely this over the years but can't remember a specific quote at the moment.

Adams didn't get over 500 yards until year 3. Cobb didn't do much in his rookie season, but had a solid 2nd year before getting hurt in his 3rd and bouncing back for his best season in year 4. It took Nelson until year 4 to break out. James Jones had a fairly productive 1st year but his 2nd and 3rd were nothing to write home about. We have to go back to Greg Jennings to find a Packer's WR that had over 500 yards in each of his two seasons. All of these guys are 2nd round picks except for Jones who went in the 3rd round.

With this in mind, it's both indicative of the depth (lack thereof) at the position, and frankly rather impressive that MVS, a 5th round pick, managed to have a 500+ yard season this year. MVS start in some ways mimic's Jennings'. When Jennings was drafted GB had a clear #1 (Donald Driver), but not much else to speak of at the position after trading Javon Walker (Robert Ferguson anyone?). I think MVS is well positioned to be the Packer's most productive WR in his first two seasons since Jennings. With a new HC and likely new OC I'm not sure I would bet on it though.

Now, what did Rodgers really mean with his comment about Dez Bryant? Again, I'm not sure what lines we're trying to read between here, but perhaps he meant exactly what he said? Once Jordy was cut it was clear they wanted to go younger at the position. So why swap one past his prime veteran for another past his prime veteran? I suppose he could have just said nothing to the question or given some generic Patriot's-esq response, but I'm not convinced that a non-statement there wouldn't have been analyzed and criticized even more than what he said, as seems to be the nature of things these days. He was rather direct and yet we're sitting here trying to figure out the true meaning of what he said, just imagine if he would have been vague lol.

Unfortunately they swapped a past his prime WR for a past his prime TE, but there was at least some logic to that one, that perhaps Jimmy Graham was a poor fit in the run-first SEA offense.
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gbguy20
5 years ago
Can't think of any reason mike would have gotten jordy gone as he seemed pretty unhappy with teds lack of aggressive approach to building his roster.
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nerdmann
5 years ago
Jordy couldn't run after he had knee surgery. Happened to Driver too, had em "cleaned out." BOOM.

Mike's not a hater. He wasn't secretly plotting against Jordy, even if he did want to drop him. It was time.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
sschind
5 years ago

You really missed the context that badly huh?

The point was we have had WR's produce above their (my opinion) talent level and I cited Boykin as an example that came to mind.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoykJa00.htm 

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I don't think I missed the context at all. You seem to think that Aaron Rodgers can turn any WR into a good WR and IMO that is simply not the case. I'll leave the three rookies out of it and even Allison for now because of the injury so excluding those 4 the last average WR Aaron Rodgers has turned into a productive WR for us was ... Um ... still thinking ... OK, I've got nothing.

A no talent WR playing with Aaron Rodgers may be a slightly better no talent WR but that doesn't make him productive.

If you are referring to the context of your conspiracy theory I chose to ignore it because I didn't think it deserved comment.
sschind
5 years ago

A lot of things are possible I suppose. I would tend to go with Occam's razor here though.


Now, what did Rodgers really mean with his comment about Dez Bryant? Again, I'm not sure what lines we're trying to read between here, but perhaps he meant exactly what he said? Once Jordy was cut it was clear they wanted to go younger at the position. So why swap one past his prime veteran for another past his prime veteran? I suppose he could have just said nothing to the question or given some generic Patriot's-esq response, but I'm not convinced that a non-statement there wouldn't have been analyzed and criticized even more than what he said, as seems to be the nature of things these days. He was rather direct and yet we're sitting here trying to figure out the true meaning of what he said, just imagine if he would have been vague lol.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Good points quake but this hits the nail on the head. Its the way I read it when he said it and its how I read it now. Have we all become so cynical that we have to question everything anybody says and try to figure out what he really meant. Maybe he really did mean exactly what he said.

nerdmann
5 years ago

Good points quake but this hits the nail on the head. Its the way I read it when he said it and its how I read it now. Have we all become so cynical that we have to question everything anybody says and try to figure out what he really meant. Maybe he really did mean exactly what he said.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Ever since the Packers hired Ari Fleischer during the Bert Favor unretirement fiasco, this team has strongly promoted the idea of an "official narrative."
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
5 years ago

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I completely agree, this is a nerd conspiracy theory, but to the point, what part of this makes it seem like Rodgers is blaming Mike McCarthy for the loss of Nelson?

Seems like he's taking a shot at Dez, saying he's not as good as Nelson...

Plus Mike McCarthy always did individualized post season players talks, so he had no problems giving players the bad news when it's on him and even did so with Favre.... and yet Gute is said to be the one that met with Nelson and told him they're going in a different direction.

While I don't believe either of them, I'd take buckeyes conspiracy theory that it was Murphy idea, over this one that it was Mike McCarthy... but of course that's just opinion and I could be wrong, but it seems to be Gute as the main person that choose Cobb over Nelson for some reason.
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Zero2Cool (1h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (1h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (1h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (1h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (2h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (2h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (2h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (2h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (2h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (2h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (2h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (2h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (2h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (2h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (2h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (2h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (2h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (2h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (2h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (2h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (3h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (3h) : Packers will get in
beast (3h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (3h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (3h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (4h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (6h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (6h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (6h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (15h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (16h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (16h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (19h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (19h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
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