Zero2Cool
6 years ago
I quoted this part because I was one who didn't think loss of Jordy Nelson was going to be that big of a hit to our offense with the likes of Adams, Cobb and Allison. After all, we watched Rodgers turn average WR into productive WR's for us (e.g. Jarrett Boykin comes to mind).

The best example of this, for me, is James Jones. He couldn't even make a roster one year after leaving us, only to return and get nearly a 1.000 yards in a season. There's been way too little effort to give Rodgers the weapons he needs, just because he's good enough without them.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



I wonder if it was actually Mike McCarthy who said to get rid of Jordy Nelson, and Aaron Rodgers knew that and that's why he was throwing the ball away so much. And all of his "gotta build trust with the WR's, gotta be at the right depth, right place, etc" comments and all that.

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".
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sschind
6 years ago

I quoted this part because I was one who didn't think loss of Jordy Nelson was going to be that big of a hit to our offense with the likes of Adams, Cobb and Allison. After all, we watched Rodgers turn average WR into productive WR's for us (e.g. Jarrett Boykin comes to mind).


I wonder if it was actually Mike McCarthy who said to get rid of Jordy Nelson, and Aaron Rodgers knew that and that's why he was throwing the ball away so much. And all of his "gotta build trust with the WR's, gotta be at the right depth, right place, etc" comments and all that.

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



If Rodgers is going to throw a hissy fit whenever we release one of his security blankets it doesn't show much leadership to me. If that is the case and you thought he threw the ball away a lot this year look out next year if they let Cobb go.

I'm also a bit concerned that you thought Boykin was average to begin with and was a productive WR for us.
Zero2Cool
6 years ago

I'm also a bit concerned that you thought Boykin was average to begin with and was a productive WR for us.

Originally Posted by: sschind 


You really missed the context that badly huh?

The point was we have had WR's produce above their (my opinion) talent level and I cited Boykin as an example that came to mind.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoykJa00.htm 
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earthquake
6 years ago
A lot of things are possible I suppose. I would tend to go with Occam's razor here though.

As far as the younger receivers needing more time to get on the same page, perhaps Rodgers said this simply because it is true? If we look at the early part of various WRs that GB has drafted they tend to not contribute much in the first year. It's reasonable to assume that the way the Packer's offense is designed and set up requires more experienced players, this is evident if we look at the receivers production. I recall various players and coaches mentioning precisely this over the years but can't remember a specific quote at the moment.

Adams didn't get over 500 yards until year 3. Cobb didn't do much in his rookie season, but had a solid 2nd year before getting hurt in his 3rd and bouncing back for his best season in year 4. It took Nelson until year 4 to break out. James Jones had a fairly productive 1st year but his 2nd and 3rd were nothing to write home about. We have to go back to Greg Jennings to find a Packer's WR that had over 500 yards in each of his two seasons. All of these guys are 2nd round picks except for Jones who went in the 3rd round.

With this in mind, it's both indicative of the depth (lack thereof) at the position, and frankly rather impressive that MVS, a 5th round pick, managed to have a 500+ yard season this year. MVS start in some ways mimic's Jennings'. When Jennings was drafted GB had a clear #1 (Donald Driver), but not much else to speak of at the position after trading Javon Walker (Robert Ferguson anyone?). I think MVS is well positioned to be the Packer's most productive WR in his first two seasons since Jennings. With a new HC and likely new OC I'm not sure I would bet on it though.

Now, what did Rodgers really mean with his comment about Dez Bryant? Again, I'm not sure what lines we're trying to read between here, but perhaps he meant exactly what he said? Once Jordy was cut it was clear they wanted to go younger at the position. So why swap one past his prime veteran for another past his prime veteran? I suppose he could have just said nothing to the question or given some generic Patriot's-esq response, but I'm not convinced that a non-statement there wouldn't have been analyzed and criticized even more than what he said, as seems to be the nature of things these days. He was rather direct and yet we're sitting here trying to figure out the true meaning of what he said, just imagine if he would have been vague lol.

Unfortunately they swapped a past his prime WR for a past his prime TE, but there was at least some logic to that one, that perhaps Jimmy Graham was a poor fit in the run-first SEA offense.
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gbguy20
6 years ago
Can't think of any reason mike would have gotten jordy gone as he seemed pretty unhappy with teds lack of aggressive approach to building his roster.
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nerdmann
6 years ago
Jordy couldn't run after he had knee surgery. Happened to Driver too, had em "cleaned out." BOOM.

Mike's not a hater. He wasn't secretly plotting against Jordy, even if he did want to drop him. It was time.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
sschind
6 years ago

You really missed the context that badly huh?

The point was we have had WR's produce above their (my opinion) talent level and I cited Boykin as an example that came to mind.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BoykJa00.htm 

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I don't think I missed the context at all. You seem to think that AR can turn any WR into a good WR and IMO that is simply not the case. I'll leave the three rookies out of it and even Allison for now because of the injury so excluding those 4 the last average WR AR has turned into a productive WR for us was ... Um ... still thinking ... OK, I've got nothing.

A no talent WR playing with Aaron Rodgers may be a slightly better no talent WR but that doesn't make him productive.

If you are referring to the context of your conspiracy theory I chose to ignore it because I didn't think it deserved comment.
sschind
6 years ago

A lot of things are possible I suppose. I would tend to go with Occam's razor here though.


Now, what did Rodgers really mean with his comment about Dez Bryant? Again, I'm not sure what lines we're trying to read between here, but perhaps he meant exactly what he said? Once Jordy was cut it was clear they wanted to go younger at the position. So why swap one past his prime veteran for another past his prime veteran? I suppose he could have just said nothing to the question or given some generic Patriot's-esq response, but I'm not convinced that a non-statement there wouldn't have been analyzed and criticized even more than what he said, as seems to be the nature of things these days. He was rather direct and yet we're sitting here trying to figure out the true meaning of what he said, just imagine if he would have been vague lol.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Good points quake but this hits the nail on the head. Its the way I read it when he said it and its how I read it now. Have we all become so cynical that we have to question everything anybody says and try to figure out what he really meant. Maybe he really did mean exactly what he said.

nerdmann
6 years ago

Good points quake but this hits the nail on the head. Its the way I read it when he said it and its how I read it now. Have we all become so cynical that we have to question everything anybody says and try to figure out what he really meant. Maybe he really did mean exactly what he said.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



Ever since the Packers hired Ari Fleischer during the Bert Favor unretirement fiasco, this team has strongly promoted the idea of an "official narrative."
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
6 years ago

It feels conspiracy special from nerdmann, but we all know how Rodgers holds a grudge. Aaron's comment "Well, we like young receivers, so I'm assuming that's the way they're going to keep going, I don't know why you'd cut Jordy [Nelson] and bring in Dez." also makes me put some more thought into that "theory".

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


I completely agree, this is a nerd conspiracy theory, but to the point, what part of this makes it seem like Rodgers is blaming MM for the loss of Nelson?

Seems like he's taking a shot at Dez, saying he's not as good as Nelson...

Plus MM always did individualized post season players talks, so he had no problems giving players the bad news when it's on him and even did so with Favre.... and yet Gute is said to be the one that met with Nelson and told him they're going in a different direction.

While I don't believe either of them, I'd take buckeyes conspiracy theory that it was Murphy idea, over this one that it was Mike McCarthy... but of course that's just opinion and I could be wrong, but it seems to be Gute as the main person that choose Cobb over Nelson for some reason.
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