RainX
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16 years ago
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-10-5/Black-and-Blue-all-over--Tweeting-the-Packers.html?post=true&prosaction=newpost&status=ok&status=ok 

And frankly, I do not disagree with him.

Why we haven't shown more interest in guys like Kevin Carter and/or Vonnie Holliday is beyond me. Two inexpensive veterans right there who could be brought in on short-term deals to at least provide some depth and experience at 3-4 DE where it's badly needed. Jenkins is coming off a major injury, who knows how long Jolly may get suspended if he's convicted, and can we even count on Bustin' Justin to stay healthy through training camp?

Not sure what happened to the "interest" we had in Carter last month, but I'd like to think the idea hasn't gone completely cold.
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MassPackersFan
16 years ago
I don't think it has. I think Carter's agent knows the Packers are interested and has an idea what kind of deal he could get his client. Carter could still end up here.
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Zero2Cool
16 years ago
I say sign Kevin Carter AND Vonnie Holiday. If we draft a few DE's, let them learn from those two for a bit and make a decision from there.

Although, both are unsigned and there are 32 teams out there and no one's fighting for them, that could be a bad sign. One could argue the same thing happened with Charles Woodson.
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TheEngineer
16 years ago
I was going to make a thread, pretty much verbatim to what you've posted there.

I think Barnett is just musing, much like the rest of the fans, due to the inaction from the front office over the past couple of weeks. Ideally, we'll draft another DL in an early round, which should provide more than enough to satisfy Barnett and most people.
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DarkaneRules
16 years ago
I hope we get an already-NFL player for D-line depth though before free agency ends. This was definitely a good little muse on Barnett's part. It wasn't insulting. He is just curious and a little concerned like all of us are. I like that he is involved to this extent. It shows that he cares about this team being the best it can be.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

There are still some serviceable veterans out there like Vonnie Holliday and Kevin Carter who probably wouldn't break the bank and could be brought in on a low-end one to two year deal and at least provide some depth and experience at 3-4 DE where it's badly needed. Either would be a good pick up for Green Bay for at least the time being until someone younger could be drafted or signed and could eventually take their place. No telling how Jolly and Jenkins will do in the new scheme and you can't count on Bustin' Justin to stay healthy long enough to find out.

"MidnightBadger" wrote:


While these are certainly valid points, I don't understand the groundswell of angst among fans over the failure to sign Holliday and Carter. In all fairness, it's not as though other teams are pounding down the doors to sign them either. Chances are they won't be signed until after the draft, and Packers management no doubt realizes this as well. My guess is they're waiting to see how the draft shakes out before spending the money to fill in the jigsaw puzzle. It would be kind of silly to sign these guys prematurely, only to have an ideal pick fall into our lap and put the team in an awkward position: pass on a great player because he's not needed, or draft a player for a position that's already filled and cut the newly acquired free agent only weeks after signing him.

I think we'll see a couple of signings after the draft, and I believe Ted Thompson's cool-headed prudence will pay off in the end.

I also predict that the teams who sign Haynesworth and Peppers won't make the Super Bowl this year. Or the next.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
I agree with Nick, but also hoping we land a really good DE in the draft who can immediately start and generate pressure.

What went wrong in '08 was the QB had way too much time to throw. He'd have a full second and a half more than AR had, sometimes even averaging two whole seconds more than Aaron.

And that's one of the main reasons we went from 14-4 to 6-10. Our main priorities need to be our lines.

I'd be for signing one or the other plus picking up some big boys in the draft.
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MassPackersFan
16 years ago

Chances are they won't be signed until after the draft, and Packers management no doubt realizes this as well. My guess is they're waiting to see how the draft shakes out before spending the money to fill in the jigsaw puzzle.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



That's... the best commentary I've read about the FA DE's anywhere. Great point. +1
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millertime
16 years ago

In all fairness, it's not as though other teams are pounding down the doors to sign them either. Chances are they won't be signed until after the draft, and Packers management no doubt realizes this as well. My guess is they're waiting to see how the draft shakes out before spending the money to fill in the jigsaw puzzle. It would be kind of silly to sign these guys prematurely, only to have an ideal pick fall into our lap and put the team in an awkward position: pass on a great player because he's not needed, or draft a player for a position that's already filled and cut the newly acquired free agent only weeks after signing him.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



It may be silly to sign them prematurely, but you have think with what these players have in mind. Say after the draft, a lot of 3-4 teams are calling Vonnie Holliday and Kevin Carter to shore up their d-line. What is gonna make them choose GB compared to places like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Miami, San Diego, or Dallas???? We have a worse record, a worse climate, and are obviously in rebuilding mode (on defense)!

I say you sign these guys now, while their options are limited. If you wait too long, you might lose out to another team. I seriously doubt the presence of Vonnie Holliday on are roster would convince Ted Thompson to pass up on a great young DE (like LSU's Tyson Jackson) if they fell to us at the right spot in the draft.
doddpower
16 years ago
Yaaay, I'm friends with Barnett on Twitter and he's always give me little bits of updates on what's going on with his rehab, travel plans, food, etc. I saw him post all of this way before any articles were written and I was wondering when someone was going to make news about it. It really just seemed like a question to me.

Either way, I love Twitter. Can't wait until more Packers get on board so that I can keep up with more inside news! 🙂
Dulak
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16 years ago
Well TT's theory of being the very cautions man either will work or it wont. ie we could lose on a very good player if someone grabs im between now and after the draft.

But it makes sense to wait ...

I wouldnt feel bad thou like some people if we picked up carter; actually quite good.
MattG04
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16 years ago

I agree with Nick, but also hoping we land a really good DE in the draft who can immediately start and generate pressure.

What went wrong in '08 was the QB had way too much time to throw. He'd have a full second and a half more than Aaron Rodgers had, sometimes even averaging two whole seconds more than Aaron.

And that's one of the main reasons we went from 14-4 to 6-10. Our main priorities need to be our lines.

I'd be for signing one or the other plus picking up some big boys in the draft.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Not trying to be a nitpicker but now that we run a 3-4, Defensive Ends arnt the ones generating pressure, they are there to take up space and free up lanes for our LB's to get to the quarterback. Which is why most 3-4 DE's are supposed to be huge (300+ pounds) and why we are looking at hybrid DE/OLBs in the draft such as Mabin and Orakpo.
That said, I think we all agree that we need some depth on the defensive line. 🙂
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DarkaneRules
16 years ago
Right, but in essence they are still generating pressure aren't they? I see pressure as the whole D-lines job no matter what scheme you run or is that mindset overly simplistic?
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MattG04
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16 years ago
Well, obviously they want to get to the quarterback, and they will eventually. But what Im saying is that's not their main goal as in a 4-3. I coach a high school 3-4 defensive team, and I know they are two totally different levels, just from my experience though, we don't preach pass rush pass rush pass rush, we want our DE's to take up two blockers so it frees up our OLB to get a hit on the quarterback.
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Rios39
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16 years ago

Right, but in essence they are still generating pressure aren't they? I see pressure as the whole D-lines job no matter what scheme you run or is that mindset overly simplistic?

"DarkaneRules" wrote:



Not really, DE's are more for eating blockers to create easy lanes for the LB's that are blitzing. The NT is more impact then the DE because they need to eat 2 blocked plus push the pocket back. Which is why I don't think it's necessary to over pay and send long term contracts to guys like Canty and others.

We can probably draft a few DT's and put them at DE if they are around 295-305. Any pressure they create will be an added bonus.
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MattG04
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16 years ago
Exactly, Rios. Which is why there is so much debate on who we should sign/draft and to whether what position our current players will play in the new scheme. I've seen some people say well it doesnt matter how much they weigh they can still play that position, well they really cant because their skill set is the exact opposite of what the 3-4 defense needs. A lot of the great 3-4 DE's now, Richard Seymour, Hitoli Nagata, played DT at one point or another.
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MassPackersFan
16 years ago
In those debates I usually quote Capers saying we won't try to fit players to a scheme.
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MattG04
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16 years ago
Capers did say that, but they are already doing that? Kampman to OLB? Jolly and Harrell moving to DE? Hawk to the MLB? He already has fit players to his scheme. It's all Public Relations IMO, I take anything the coaches say in press conferences with a grain of salt. To me Capers quote is like McCarthy saying "We need better pad level".
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Zero2Cool
16 years ago

Capers did say that, but they are already doing that? Kampman to OLB? Jolly and Harrell moving to DE? Hawk to the MLB? He already has fit players to his scheme. It's all Public Relations IMO, I take anything the coaches say in press conferences with a grain of salt. To me Capers quote is like McCarthy saying "We need better pad level".

"MattG04" wrote:



Did he?

You think Kampman would be more effective as DE than OLB in a 3 - 4?
You think Hawk would be more effective as OLB than ILB in a 3 - 4?
You think Jolly and Harrell would be more effective as NT than DE in a 3 - 4?


I think those were logical moves and its more so fitting their talents to the scheme.
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MattG04
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16 years ago
They are logical moves, your right, but I don't think its fair to say that we won't try to fit players to the scheme when that's exactly what hes doing. I would have made those same moves as well.
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