beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
6 years ago
I think this is a very good article for anyone interested in UDFA's contracts and how to get top UDFAs. Also it gives some clues to what other professionals expect from Gutekunst and Ball.

I also think this could become another example where the Packers are slow to change in the contract department... like when they used to demand minimum of two year deals as most lower paid free agents were demanding one year prove it type deals... where it saves them some money, but also cost them some potential talent. While it certainly needs to be noted that saved money adds up, which way is more valuable to the team is more important and I think it depends on how many UDFAs, you're able to hit on.

But simply put, teams that are willing to guarantee a portion of the base salary got first pick/selections of the UDFAs... and GB was among half of the teams were unwilling.

Indications are that the Green Bay Packers weren’t among the 50% of teams in the NFL that guaranteed portions of base salary as an enticement to sign the highest-rated undrafted rookies.

A sampling of the 14 free-agent contracts signed by the Packers revealed a business-as-usual approach followed by Russ Ball, the team’s executive vice president of football operations who sets company policy and negotiates deals.

Possibly as a result, Green Bay ended up with what appears to be a ho-hum collection of talent. Long a leader in production from free agents, the Packers’ 14-man contingent seems down in quality from previous years.

“Nothing exciting about this group,” an AFC executive in personnel said. “A low-budget accumulation.”

===================

How did the Vikings secure so many of the better undrafted players to join them?

“They bought them,” said a source familiar with the Vikings’ financial practices. “They guaranteed money on the base (salary).”

===================

“More small school than I would have expected from ‘Gutey,’” a personnel man for an NFL team said in reference to GM Brian Gutekunst. “I expect big schools, big guys from him.”

===================

The decision by Green Bay and Ball not to guarantee any part of their rookies’ free agents shouldn’t be surprising. Their policy has been not to guarantee base salaries for veterans, either.

“Green Bay won’t do it,” said one NFL executive. “Green Bay is way too conservative.”

===================

Ball would like to adhere to his fiscal policies that he established with GM Ted Thompson after they joined forces in 2008. Agents have said Ball doesn’t like setting precedent. He can be stubborn, and team president Mark Murphy forever seemed to have his back until it came down to choosing a new general manager.

Bob McGinn  wrote:


Cheesey
6 years ago
This is where I think that sometimes it hurts the Packers not having an owner.
A team owner not only wants profit, but wants to win Super Bowls. He (or she) wants the bragging rights.
Green Bay not having a owner means the “higher ups” are most likely concerned with profit over trophies.
That’s what I think, for what it’s worth.

nerdmann
6 years ago
We don't (necessarily) need that. UDFAs already want to come here, because they have a legit shot at making the team. Guys know that if you come to Green Bay, you will get a fair shot to make the 53. This team has a pretty good record of that.

Whether or not that's enough going forward, remains to be seen.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
isocleas2
6 years ago
The teams guaranteeing base salaries do get higher quality UDFA on average. I can see the argument for it.

However atm the Packers don't guarantee any base salary in any of their deals. Start caving in on rookies and then the vets will want the same no?
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

This is where I think that sometimes it hurts the Packers not having an owner.
A team owner not only wants profit, but wants to win Super Bowls. He (or she) wants the bragging rights.
Green Bay not having a owner means the “higher ups” are most likely concerned with profit over trophies.
That’s what I think, for what it’s worth.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Don't you think the Packers personal want bragging rights just as much as owners do? ... I feel pretty sure they do, and they don't have a non-football owner getting in the way (Cowboys, Redskins, Bengals) or taking leftover cap money and putting it in his pocket like some teams do (Bengals). Heck the last time I heard the Bengals still refuse to hire half the number of scouts as most of the other teams have.

We don't (necessarily) need that. UDFAs already want to come here, because they have a legit shot at making the team. Guys know that if you come to Green Bay, you will get a fair shot to make the 53. This team has a pretty good record of that.

Whether or not that's enough going forward, remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 

I think "guaranteed portions of base salary" is relatively new... but even before that, I believe was mostly based on guaranteed signing bonuses with GB's better shot at sticking on the 53 man roster as a GREAT tie breaker.

So I think it's still about guaranteed money, just the Packers aren't (yet) willing to do the new item. I'm just wondering how long until they're willing, just like it took a couple of years, but they finally became willing to do the one year deals too that they were against at first.

The teams guaranteeing base salaries do get higher quality UDFA on average. I can see the argument for it.

However atm the Packers don't guarantee any base salary in any of their deals. Start caving in on rookies and then the vets will want the same no?

Originally Posted by: isocleas2 

I agree with your point, if you open the door for some then more will want it open for them too. But at the same time, some of those vets are getting millions of dollars in signing bonuses, where these UDFAs have gotten $6,000 at most from the Packers in signing bonuses... so it's not quite apples to apples there either.

Russ Ball, the team’s executive vice president of football operations who sets company policy and negotiates deals.

Ball would like to adhere to his fiscal policies that he established with GM Ted Thompson after they joined forces in 2008. Agents have said Ball doesn’t like setting precedent. He can be stubborn

Article in the first post wrote:

I'm also wondering if Rodgers' agent and Ball are butting heads and if that is the only reason there isn't a new contract in place, after all, rumors have it that Rodgers wants to have a new type of contract (most rumors have suggested one where the amount he makes can adjust) where as "Ball doesn’t like setting precedent."
Fan Shout
wpr (7h) : 7 days
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (16-Apr) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
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