Barfarn
7 years ago

More directly, like an adult? Okay, sometimes your comments are full of shit!
That's more directly and more like an adult. šŸ˜

It's sad, that your talking down to me, when you're the one that can't follow a simple comment.
Bless Your Heart!
But simply put, you're making false claims that teams can't do certain things... when Ted Thompson (among other GMs) have recently done them, which proves your comments wrong. [fing1]

Originally Posted by: beast 



šŸ˜‚ You hit the trifecta...This argument lacks "intellect, scholarship AND decency " šŸ˜‚.

If it happens all the time; then provide one example of a team releasing a player that is injured. I believe what I write and there's a reason I believe what I believe. Sorry I don't think you are an authority I can ipso facto trust. So if I'm wrong, then lay out an argument. Please educate me.

GB couldn't release Bennett unless he agreed to a settlement; so they concocted the nondisclosure. IMHO, this is pretty basic stuff.
beast
7 years ago

šŸ˜‚ You hit the trifecta...This argument lacks "intellect, scholarship AND decency " šŸ˜‚.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 


Just copying your example, if you're gonna be a jackass to me then I'm going to be a jackass back.

And I've already done scholarship research on a subject and you completely ignored it as you are once again doing because it doesn't agree with your view point.


If it happens all the time; then provide one example of a team releasing a player that is injured.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I already did, in my first post to you in this thread. You just proven it's pointless to talk to you since you don't listen...

Forget it, it's not worth the time or effort


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Barfarn
7 years ago
Yea, that's what I thought...Banjo and Schum, if injured at the time of their release were cleared. Moving on!

Its reported by GB "sources" that Bennett was cut because of the cuff injury. This injury is in the same shoulder that was injured last year; so if he injury was there when Bennett signed his deal, the blame and negligence is 100% on the GB med staff. As I described the process earlier.

Clearly, 1265 is a bunch of liars for using this reason to cut Bennett; they simply wanted him off the team ad manufactured this excuse.

There is one thing that could interfere with this idea. When a player is injured in game, he must disclose the injury immediately. If Bennett's shoulder in an earlier game was hurt and he told no one, this might also be called nondisclosure. The CBA provides for the player to be fined; but nothing that allows the team to cut. Its possible, but I doubt, that language in Bennett's contract could be used to supersede the CBA mandate that an injured player cannot be released.

From a moral perspective; I'm a bit disappointed, but okay with 1265's action. As far as I'm concerned Bennett breached when he announced his retirement and his bonus should have been returned at that moment [like that'll happen]. Also, we dont know if he was being a problem in clubhouse.

From a contractual standpoint; it wont matter, their not getting bonus back for nondisclosure and the cutting burned their only real avenue to get the bonus back [Bennett's retirement]. GB just paid a cost to get him out of town.

I dont get why many here hate on Bennett for his reaction. Many of you should be tuned in to Bennett's highly emotional state all too well šŸ˜‚. Circumstance are judged thru the bias lens of their own eye, absolutely steadfastly refusing to cognitively analyze or to take a moment and evaluate a different side of thought. Emotion trumps rationality and scholarship. Bennett has the blinders in pursuit of self-justification, "I was hurt they cut me, they suck, they're covering for their negligence." But, GB is bound by the CBA and they failed to honor their contractual obligations.
PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago
Barf, there is nothing to prevent a team from releasing an injured player nothing. All that would happen is the team would have to pay 100% of the players salary for that year. In most cases if they are paying a full year salary, they would just keep them on the roster. Where injury settlements come in, is that the player agrees to less of a payout for the team to release them so they have an opportunity to be picked up and play for another team.

Players have an obligation to disclose any injuries so the signing team has a chance to check. Bennett said they discussed his shoulder and Packers performed an Xray. If he had said then he had a rotator cuff problem they would have given him an MRI not an xray. If the Packers can show that Bennett did have a bad rotator cuff prior and failed to tell them or misled them he will lose out.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Barfarn
7 years ago

Barf, there is nothing to prevent a team from releasing an injured player nothing. All that would happen is the team would have to pay 100% of the players salary for that year. In most cases if they are paying a full year salary, they would just keep them on the roster. Where injury settlements come in, is that the player agrees to less of a payout for the team to release them so they have an opportunity to be picked up and play for another team.

Players have an obligation to disclose any injuries so the signing team has a chance to check. Bennett said they discussed his shoulder and Packers performed an Xray. If he had said then he had a rotator cuff problem they would have given him an MRI not an xray. If the Packers can show that Bennett did have a bad rotator cuff prior and failed to tell them or misled them he will lose out.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Here's a clause in a standard NFL contract:
"Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player is injured in
the performance of his services under this contract and promptly reports such injury to
the Club physician or trainer, then Player will receive such medical and hospital care
during the term of this contract as the Club physician may deem necessary, and will
continue to receive his yearly salary for so long, during the season of injury only and for
no subsequent period covered by this contract, as Player is physically unable to perform
the services required of him by this contract because of such injury. "

So actually, technically that is not true. If GB agrees to pay off entire contract and the player says, "NO!" GB cant cut the player. If GB didn't want the player to sit out his contract on IR; they'd have to file an injury grievance under section 44 of the CBA.

The player's obligation to disclose injuries is limited to HIS knowledge of the injuries.

As I said earlier. Per the CBA, the Team doctor asks questions of Bennett, a football player, not Bennett's MDs.

To ask a layperson to perform a medical analysis on is own injuries or even procedures or surgeries performed is pure folly. Bennett said "x-ray;" but was it? Of the million things that can be wrong with a player's shoulder the X ray will spot 10 of them; I bet if pressed Bennett would talk about how they slid him into a doughnut shaped machine for a long time,. Surely, he was using "x-ray" not clinically, but generically.

If Bennett disclosed the shoulder was hurting last year; that all he has to do. Then its up to GB to determine the exact medical condition of the shoulder. If GB performed an X-ray and not an MRI [I'm sure they did the MRI] on the shoulder our medical staff needs to be fired right now!!!!!!!!!!!!! RIGHT NOW!
beast
7 years ago

Barf, there is nothing to prevent a team from releasing an injured player nothing. All that would happen is the team would have to pay 100% of the players salary for that year.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Just like what they're currently doing with P Jacob Schum. He got injured, they released him, he went though waivers, no one claimed his contract, so his contract goes back to the Packers IR even though he's officially released... because the Packers are still on the hook for 100% of his contract (unless an injury settlement was made, which is doesn't seem to be).

So the Packers did release an injured player just this year, despite someone claiming it can't be done.


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Nonstopdrivel
7 years ago

Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player is injured in the performance of his services under this contract and promptly reports such injury to the Club physician or trainer, then Player will receive such medical and hospital care during the term of this contract as the Club physician may deem necessary, and will continue to receive his yearly salary for so long, during the season of injury only and for no subsequent period covered by this contract, as Player is physically unable to perform the services required of him by this contract because of such injury.



Nothing in that clause states or even implies that an injured player cannot be cut. If anything, the phrase "term of his contract" implies just the opposite, since teams can and do terminate player contacts. As PFWT points out, however, a team that waives a player is on the hook for the entire season's salary.
UserPostedImage
Barfarn
7 years ago

Just like what they're currently doing with P Jacob Schum. He got injured, they released him, he went though waivers, no one claimed his contract, so his contract goes back to the Packers IR even though he's officially released... because the Packers are still on the hook for 100% of his contract (unless an injury settlement was made, which is doesn't seem to be).

So the Packers did release an injured player just this year, despite someone claiming it can't be done.

Originally Posted by: beast 



Or you could have just said, ā€œya cant cut an injured player and Schum is Exhibit A šŸ˜‚.ā€

There are OTHER ways a team can separate from an injured player, I can think of 7 at this moment:

(1) Claim injury was not disclosed;
(2) Claim the injury was not ā€œfootball related;ā€
(3) Arrange a new contract, usually whatā€™s called an "Injury settlement;"
(4) The team can trade him-but that new team cannot cut this injured player;
(5) The team can put him on waivers [and an injury designation MUST be attached] AND take a sip from hope cocktail wishing that another team claims him and that claiming team cannot cut this injured player;
(6) Wait until his contract expires; or
(7) The team can kill him.
Barfarn
7 years ago

Here's a clause in a standard NFL contract:
"Unless this contract specifically provides otherwise, if Player is injured in
the performance of his services under this contract and promptly reports such injury to
the Club physician or trainer, then Player will receive such medical and hospital care
during the term of this contract as the Club physician may deem necessary, and will
continue to receive his yearly salary for so long, during the season of injury only and for
no subsequent period covered by this contract, as Player is physically unable to perform
the services required of him by this contract because of such injury. "

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



Nothing in that clause states or even implies that an injured player cannot be cut. If anything, the phrase "term of his contract" implies just the opposite, since teams can and do terminate player contacts. As PFWT points out, however, a team that waives a player is on the hook for the entire season's salary.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



Your argument demonstrates a complete dearth of legal acumen and evidences a mind so closed itā€™s driven to agenda.

REMEMBER: This is just one single clause in a contract that must work in harmony with the other clauses in the contract and be worded in a way that does not abate bargained for rights in the CBA. This prevents one from taking one clause like "term of contract" being used out of context just as you just did.

It should be blatantly obvious that this single clause [And thatā€™s why I picked this one] that the player is guaranteed to certain things that effectively prevent the team from cutting he player, to wit:

Player is entitled to:
(1) ā€œRECEIVE MEDICAL CARE DURING THE TERM OF THIS CONTRACT AS THE CLUB PHYSICIAN MAY DEEM NECESSARYā€;
(2) A player is also entitled to ā€œCONTINUE TO RECEIVE HIS YEARLY SALARY FOR SO LONGā€¦AS PLAYER ISā€ hurt or until that yearsā€™ contract expires.

These rights are conferred for the "term of the contract" of the injury year "for so long...as player is physically unable to perform." Hence, a team cant terminate these right while the player is injured. Proposing the idea that a contact can be terminated at anytime, hence these rights can be terminated at any time is patently absurd.

When a guy is under contract there is an incredible amount of control a team can exert over this person that they cant when the player is no longer under contract. If you cut a guy, who has the right to access to your med staff and facilities, how does the team work that out? Does Dr. McKenzie meet the ex-player at the 7-11 pulling a mobile treatment trailer? Do you allow a non player to come and go from the facility and if he cant get in at 1:00am, or use the Chill tubs an hour after a home game, he may call his union rep and file a grievance.

This clause was negotiated the way it was because it effectively gave the Club no choice; but to keep the guy on the team.

One of the reasons, probably the main reason, players refuse injury settlements is they want their treatment supervised by the clubā€™s med staff and to utilize their facilities for rehab [and workout]. Plus they still get to be part of the team.

Another huge reason why some donā€™t agree to injury settlements is they get all their cash upon termination. Some donā€™t want the money in one lump. Some have arrangements to pay the money throughout the year. A guy like Schum could hedge against playing next year by having some of his 2107 salary paid in 2018, thus reducing total tax consequence. Plus, heā€™d have more cash flowing-in in 2018 to accompany the WC settlement left over after GB is reimbursed from it.

Every year there are a dozen or two NFL players cut from IR day 1 of the new year. Why does a team carry a guy on IR all year just to cut them? Answer: because they cant cut them until THE END OF CONTRACT YEAR! Itā€™s possible GB wants Schum around, but heā€™s probably going to be one of those dozen or two.

If you donā€™t get this; then I refer you to Farmer in the LA Times article mentioned above or go read the CBA.
Cheesey
7 years ago
Geez....some people can be SHOWN they are wrong, over and over, and they STILL won't admit they are wrong.
They just keep throwing crap against the wall, hoping SOMETHING will stick.
Amazing.
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Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (54m) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (2h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (12h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (12h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (12h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (12h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (12h) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (16h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (16h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (16h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (19h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (19h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (19h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (19h) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (19h) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (19h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (19h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (19h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (20h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (20h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (20h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (21h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (21h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (21h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (21h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (21h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (22h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (22h) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (22h) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (22h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (22h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (22h) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
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