nerdmann
7 years ago

I like what you have been saying beast. LS and gunners don't compare. The whole OL drops back to block and none of them can leave early.

That said, a few years ago Good or whoever the LS was made a few tackles. He wasn't blocked and ran down the middle of the field untouched. Gunners we're being doubled up on both sides so there were coverage guys who weren't defended. It wasn't just one game. It happened frequently.

Perhaps ST coaches adjusted in the past couple of years.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Perhaps age and knee surgery took its toll.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Cheesey
7 years ago
I remember how Rob Davis used to be in on tackles all the time. The dude snapped, then was down field QUICK!
Always amazed me just how good he was at that.
UserPostedImage
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
7 years ago

That said, a few years ago Good or whoever the LS was made a few tackles. He wasn't blocked and ran down the middle of the field untouched. Gunners we're being doubled up on both sides so there were coverage guys who weren't defended. It wasn't just one game. It happened frequently.

Perhaps ST coaches adjusted in the past couple of years.

Originally Posted by: wpr 


Goode hasn't made a tackle since 2013, when he had 3 tackles,
In 2011 and 2012, Goode had a single tackle each year
Goode also made muli-tackles in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

I remember how Rob Davis used to be in on tackles all the time. The dude snapped, then was down field QUICK!
Always amazed me just how good he was at that.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 


Rob Davis was different, in his first four complete years, he averaged 3 solo tackles and 2 assist tackle (so averaged 5 tackles) per year (in his first four years)... in his last year he got 0.

I've been trying to figure out what is average or normal for a LS but I can't see where anyone has written about it.

J.J. Jansen, the LS that the Packers traded to the Panthers (for 7th rounder in 2011), is averaging 1.6 tackles per year.

Brett Goode has averaged 1.555 tackles per year. So Goode isn't that far off from Jansen average wise, though it looks like Goode can break things down by year.
2008-2010 = averaged 3 tackles per year
2011-2013 = averaged 2 tackles per year
2014-2016 = averaged 0 tackles per year

From what I can tell, the Packers actually drafted one of the best tackling LS in Clark Harris. Of course he was drafted as a TE/LS but mainly TE. The Packers, Lions and Texans all tried to him at TE and he stock on some PS... when the Texans LS got suspended, they brought Clark up to finish December as their LS, but got cut the next year and he's been the Bengals LS since. Clark has averaged 3 tackles per year.

Zak DeOssie (drafted in the 4th round by the Giants as a LB) seems like the best tackle guy of the LS. DeOssie averages 7.6 tackles per year... BUT... BUT... I think he might be doing more than just LS. He might be on other ST coverage units as well.
UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
7 years ago
Fair nuff beast. You know how it is for old duffer's, 7 years ago was only last week.
UserPostedImage
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
7 years ago
This isn't perfect, but I wanted to know what was average number of tackles per year. Using longsnap.com  I was able to find out the number of LS tackles each team had and their average per year. It should be noted that the site doesn't perfectly match some other sites, but it was very close and had all the info in one place making it a lot easier.

Giants' LS Zak DeOssie, is either head and shoulders better than all other LS or he's playing on some other ST coverage unit as well. If you take out his slump year and injury year, then he's averaging over 8.6 tackles per year.

Saints were clearly the worst, they're the only team that averages less than a tackle per year with 5 tackles in 7 years. Ravens, Packers, Charges and Redskins tied for second worst with only 8 LS tackles in 7 years.

I made an NFL average, and an adjusted NFL average, since the Giants and Saints seemed to be outliers (to a degree).

Avg 76.57 tackles for 32 teams = NFL average of 2.39 LS tackles per year

Avg 68.57 tackles for 30 teams = NFL ADJUSTED average of 2.2857 per year


Even with the Packers being tied for second last, they're only 1.25 tackles per year away from the higher NFL average measurement, and the Saints (the worst team) is less than 1.7 away from it. So the difference between NFL average LS tackles and the worst, is less than 1.7 tackles per year. Which seems like a very small difference to me, and not enough to make huge changes for. So I don't think the Long snappers coverage skills will effect the gunner position and that the gunners have won their won on the roster without thought of the LS coverage skill.


Rank, Team , # of LS tackles in 7 years , average # of LS tackles in those years

1 Giants , 51 , 7.285714286
2 Titans , 31 , 4.428571429
3 Bills , 30 , 4.285714286
4 Raiders , 27 , 3.857142857
5 Jaguars , 24 , 3.428571429
6 Bengals , 23 , 3.285714286
6 Colts , 23 , 3.285714286
6 Buccaneers , 23 , 3.285714286
9 Cardinals , 22 , 3.142857143
10 Dolphins , 20 , 2.857142857
11 Browns , 18 , 2.571428571
11 Texans , 18 , 2.571428571
13 49ers , 17 , 2.428571429
# NFL Average , 16.75 2.392857143
# NFL Adjusted Average , 16 , 2.285714286

14 Falcons , 16 , 2.285714286
14 Patriots , 16 , 2.285714286
16 Chiefs , 15 , 2.142857143
16 Vikings , 15 , 2.142857143
16 Eagles , 15 , 2.142857143
19 Bears , 14 , 2
19 Broncos , 14 , 2
21 Panthers , 10 , 1.428571429
21 Cowboys , 10 , 1.428571429
21 Lions , 10 , 1.428571429
21 Rams , 10 , 1.428571429
25 Jets , 9 , 1.285714286
25 Steelers , 9 , 1.285714286
25 Seahawks , 9 , 1.285714286
28 Ravens , 8 , 1.142857143
28 Packers , 8 , 1.142857143
28 Charges , 8 , 1.142857143
28 Redskins , 8 , 1.142857143
32 Saints , 5 , 0.714285714

UserPostedImage
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
7 years ago
Also other important factors are # number of punts and # of returns ... because a punt coverage unit, can only get a tackle, if there is a return...

In otherwords, IF the LS is making tackles, that means multiple things have gone wrong, including the offense failed to move the ball into FG range, the punter either didn't get enough hang time and/or the gunner failed to get down to the catch... all of which the Packers have done well with over the years... therefore hurting the LS punt coverage tackling numbers


It's harder to make tackles when your team is among the lowest allowed returns... but if there is no punt return, then there is no punt return tackle

In 2016, the Packers had the 3rd least amount of punts and lowest number of returned punted (16) of any team in the NFL.

In 2015, the Packers were 26 least, BUT, they broke a 1963 Packers record for best punt net yardage  meaning that the punter/gunners/coverage had an amazing year. Best that the Packers punting/coverage unit has ever had.

In 2014, the Packers had the least amount of punts (49) and 2nd in lowest number of returned punts (22) of any team in the NFL.

In 2013 the Packers had the 3rd least amount of punts and returns (20). And Goode had 3 tackles... so Goode had 15% (3/20) of the punt return tackles this year.

In 2012 the Packers had the 7th lead amount of punts but the 2nd least amount of returns (24). Goode had 4% of the punt return tackles.

In 2011 the Packers had the 3rd least amount punts and 2nd least amount of returns (24 again). Goode 4% of the punt return tackles again.

In 2010 the Packers had the 10th least punts and returns (31). Goode had 3 tackles for 9.7% of the punt return tackles.

In 2009 the Packers had the 7th lowest number of punts but the 10th highest number of returns (which is very bad) and Goode got his highest number of tackles at 4 which was 10% of the punt tackles. So the higher your LS stats, the worse your teams offense, punts/gunner combo were...

PS: Yeah, I know I need more football... I'm looking up punting and LS stats for goodness sake... GET ME SOME REAL FOOTBALL!!!!
UserPostedImage
Fan Shout
dfosterf (22h) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (23h) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

14-Jun / Community Welcome! / dfosterf

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.