voiceofreason
9 years ago

First off, dont get all hysterical, it's important to maintain a voice of reason. The goal is to find a way to get our MVP QB back, not replace him with Tolzein. And Aaron Rodgers watching severely less talented Tolzein marching up and down the field by staying in the offense would be just what the DR. ordered. If you think Aaron Rodgers is a guy having a bad game or to, then no amount of voicing of reason will help you because you simply are not paying attention TO THE GAME.

Second, applying your reasoning it necessarily follows that you believe: If Aaron Rodgers broke his collar bone; Starr, the greatest GB QB of all time, should have started v. Detroit over Tolzein. This reasoning fails because age has caused him not to be the guy he was in the 60's. TODAY, the guy who gives us the best chance is TOLZEIN not Starr. If one argued for Tolzein over Starr, would you be saying, "what a dumb shit...it's obvious Starr is better, look at the way he played in the 60's?" This is the position of reason you've taken! Your missing one very important variable in your Aaron Rodgers reasoning: it's effing 2015, week 13, it's not 1966, it's not 2014, it's not 2011. Understand?

Third, Lacy was pretty good too, our best RB in a long time; this must be the second dumbest shit you've ever heard: "benching" Lacy. This was not about missing 1 curfew. It was about a fundamental shift in Lacy's approach to his job from last year to this. They're trying to get him back. Do ya think Lacy has 2 100 yard games in a row, if he was not demoted a few weeks ago? Can you see the difference in the way he ran those 2 games and earlier in the year: night and day! So if we apply your Aaron Rodgers reasoning: Lacy is better than Starks, HArris and Crockett, dont bench him, right? Is Lacy better than Crockett, no freakin' way; BUT BUT BUT who was in the best position to play well against Detroit? And I give you my solemn guarantee that if Tolzein played the first 2.5 Quarters v. Detroit; he like Crockett over Lacy would have EASILY outperformed AR.

You got a QB that is REFUSING to operate w/in the game plan. Do ya think the coach that says, "Meh, he's the greatest of all time, he's entitled to do what ever he wants; is a dumb shit? I do." If a lesser QB had done this they'd be CUT not benched, same logic used on Lacy And Harris.

The Favre parallel is spot on; anyone who wants a repeat of those last 8 years is a total Dumbsh!t in my book. Wanting exhilarating QB play over wins and championships is just weird to me. It happened because Peabody and Sherman could not find a way to reign in Favre. One huge difference between Favre and Rodgers is that Favre didn't wear his superiority the way a Brazilian where's their flag to their teams wold cup match.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I don't think hysterical means what you think it does sir. I merely suggested that benching Rodgers is fucking stupid. We are 8-4. I obviously cant "win" this argument because your position is that Tolzien would outperform Rodgers while simultaneously fixing Rodgers attitude. However, since Rodgers has no realistic chance to actually be benched you will never technically be wrong.

I never mentioned Starr, so I have no idea what point you were trying to make.

Benching Big Ed Lacy and benching Aaron Rodgers are in different worlds. One of these worlds exists in reality, while the other exists only in the fevered dreams of true lunatics. In my opinion.

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nerdmann
9 years ago

I don't think hysterical means what you think it does sir. I merely suggested that benching Rodgers is fucking stupid. We are 8-4. I obviously cant "win" this argument because your position is that Tolzien would outperform Rodgers while simultaneously fixing Rodgers attitude. However, since Rodgers has no realistic chance to actually be benched you will never technically be wrong.

I never mentioned Starr, so I have no idea what point you were trying to make.

Benching Big Ed Lacy and benching Aaron Rodgers are in different worlds. One of these worlds exists in reality, while the other exists only in the fevered dreams of true lunatics. In my opinion.

Originally Posted by: voiceofreason 



Because Eddie is black and therefore probably takes a slackard attitude toward his work ethic and needs to be taught a lesson?

Not sure what difference there is between the two.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
voiceofreason
9 years ago
The difference is Eddie Lacy is a third year running back while Rodgers is an NFL and Superbowl MVP quarterback in the prime of his career.
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DakotaT
9 years ago
This whole thread is some amusing shit! Bench Rodgers, who would be that stupid? LOL

Trust me boys, there will come a day when we have to play a ham-n-egger like Tolzien, and we'll be lucky to be a .500 football team. So sit back, RELAX, and enjoy the ride for another 5-7 years.

But I do reserve the right to bitch at Uncle Ted for not providing enough talent to win it all, by using ALL methods necessary for acquiring players.
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Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

I don't think hysterical means what you think it does sir. I merely suggested that benching Rodgers is fucking stupid. We are 8-4. I obviously cant "win" this argument because your position is that Tolzien would outperform Rodgers while simultaneously fixing Rodgers attitude. However, since Rodgers has no realistic chance to actually be benched you will never technically be wrong.

I never mentioned Starr, so I have no idea what point you were trying to make.

Benching Big Ed Lacy and benching Aaron Rodgers are in different worlds. One of these worlds exists in reality, while the other exists only in the fevered dreams of true lunatics. In my opinion.

Originally Posted by: voiceofreason 



Hysterical-being controlled by EMOTION; not reason, that's what it means and that is what I meant. A hysterical idea was put forth that Aaron Rodgers should remain the starter because: (a) He was great; and (b) he's only had a few "subpar" games.

The Starr simile wiped out (a), its an absurd idea that a guy keeps his job because of past performance to the exclusion of all else; and (b) is 100% irrational inaccurate emotion. His PR against blitz was over 120; this year its under 50. I pointed out a week ago that he was 24th in yards passing, behind some pretty bad QBs and combos of back-ups . His passer rating is skewed because of low INTs, high TD passes and garbage time yards. In the last 6 weeks, he has not been subar; he's SUCKED! There is a fundamental shift in AR's: accuracy; seeing wide open receivers; seeing check downs; locking in on his receivers WAAAAY more than usual; missing hot reads; not anticipating or seeing mismatches; he not preparing as well [been through 7 2014 games, he'd didn't screw up a single scripted play so far]; hell, he admitted he was afraid to throw to Cobb in endzone in Car. and on and on. One can look at his 10 point drop in PR from career average and dwell comfortably in ignorant bliss; some need that level of denial to function.

I can be persuaded with any argument supporting with real FACTS, not hysterical fantasies of Aaron Rodgers playing "subpar in a few games" and cogent reasoning. "subpar in a few game," WTF, did Starr run a 4.39 40 on T'giving too?

FYI: AR's benching is being considered. Did you see the film of Holmgren changing his mind a few seconds after telling the assistants to get the back-up ready for Favre. Or Mike McCarthy saying he screwed up by not pulling Favre in NFC champ game v Giants. It is being considered, we just don't know it yet!

Like I said, I've gone back and been grading his play last year: there is a night and day difference; hard to believe its the same guy wearing #12.
Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
9 years ago

It's one thing to criticize Rodgers for his mistakes. There have been more than his fair share to point out these past six weeks. It's another entirely to state, as fact, with little to no basis to do so, that Tolzein would have committed none of those errors or to assume he would have matched Rodgers on every play that was executed correctly. It's also absurd to blame only Rodgers for these issues when one of the specific examples you gave involved a ball going through a receiver's hands, bad throw notwithstanding.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Okay, that's a good point. I'm doing some projecting for Tolzein, based on my little-fact based idea that he has improved at executing the game plan from 2 years ago. I'm influenced by his sleeping almost as much at Lambeau than at his home and his 98 PR in preseason. Tolzein got 1st team reps before Minn game; maybe he sucked. Maybe they felt that was enough to kick Aaron Rodgers in the a$$.

But if you look at all the plays in the 1st half of Detroit; it really doesnt take the most talented QB to execute the plays that Aaron Rodgers screwed up or most he made good on for that matter. Now it'd be silly to say, EG, if Aaron Rodgers threw inaccurately on Adams TD, that Tolzein would have made that throw. But it is fair to say he would have hit JJ open on the cross for 1st or Cobb open in right endzone.

Again on the Jones no catch, JJ jumped late because that play is practiced to go low; it's like asking a baseball catcher who called for a curve inside to catch a fastball outside. Nothing is different about the performance of the other 10 offensive players this year from years past. The only performance drop is the QB and it's serious.
voiceofreason
9 years ago

Hysterical-being controlled by EMOTION; not reason, that's what it means and that is what I meant. A hysterical idea was put forth that Aaron Rodgers should remain the starter because: (a) He was great; and (b) he's only had a few "subpar" games.

The Starr simile wiped out (a), its an absurd idea that a guy keeps his job because of past performance to the exclusion of all else; and (b) is 100% irrational inaccurate emotion. His PR against blitz was over 120; this year its under 50. I pointed out a week ago that he was 24th in yards passing, behind some pretty bad QBs and combos of back-ups . His passer rating is skewed because of low INTs, high TD passes and garbage time yards. In the last 6 weeks, he has not been subar; he's SUCKED! There is a fundamental shift in AR's: accuracy; seeing wide open receivers; seeing check downs; locking in on his receivers WAAAAY more than usual; missing hot reads; not anticipating or seeing mismatches; he not preparing as well [been through 7 2014 games, he'd didn't screw up a single scripted play so far]; hell, he admitted he was afraid to throw to Cobb in endzone in Car. and on and on. One can look at his 10 point drop in PR from career average and dwell comfortably in ignorant bliss; some need that level of denial to function.

I can be persuaded with any argument supporting with real FACTS, not hysterical fantasies of Aaron Rodgers playing "subpar in a few games" and cogent reasoning. "subpar in a few game," WTF, did Starr run a 4.39 40 on T'giving too?

FYI: AR's benching is being considered. Did you see the film of Holmgren changing his mind a few seconds after telling the assistants to get the back-up ready for Favre. Or Mike McCarthy saying he screwed up by not pulling Favre in NFC champ game v Giants. It is being considered, we just don't know it yet!

Like I said, I've gone back and been grading his play last year: there is a night and day difference; hard to believe its the same guy wearing #12.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



So by your definition hysterical is acting on emotion. My arguments were based on passer rating comparisons and the existing NFL precedent that Quarterbacks with ARod's credentials dont get benched. Your arguments are based on "gut feelings". Who is acting on emotion?



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mi_keys
9 years ago

Now it'd be silly to say, EG, if Aaron Rodgers threw inaccurately on Adams TD, that Tolzein would have made that throw. But it is fair to say he would have hit JJ open on the cross for 1st or Cobb open in right endzone.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



No, it's not. You have no idea if Tolzein would have seen JJ or Cobb on those specific plays and no idea if he would have completed the pass if he did see them. That's ignoring the very obvious problem that play calling would be different depending on how preceding plays unfolded. For all we know, Tolzein may well have missed a play earlier in those drives ending the possession before we even had a chance to miss JJ or Cobb.

Again on the Jones no catch, JJ jumped late because that play is practiced to go low; it's like asking a baseball catcher who called for a curve inside to catch a fastball outside.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



There was no one within 10 yards of Jones. If Rodgers had thrown the ball low, that would have been a poor throw as well. It should have been on the numbers. Regardless, Jones had a clear line of sight and was stationary. There's no excuse for not going up and getting that ball.

I find the trend to put all the blame on either Rodgers or the receivers tiresome. Rodgers is paid to make smart decisions, find the open man, and put the ball in the optimal spot to catch it. The receivers are paid to run sharp routes, get open, and catch anything and everything that comes within their wing span. Neither have done their jobs these past 6 weeks. I'm not going to give Jones a pass because Rodgers didn't do his job and I'm not going to give Rodgers a pass because Jones didn't do his either.

Nothing is different about the performance of the other 10 offensive players this year from years past. The only performance drop is the QB and it's serious.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I can't take this seriously. There's plenty to criticize Rodgers for without pushing this absurd narrative. Do you honestly think Lacy has played up to his standard last year or the running game in general? Would Tolzein retroactively heal Lacy's sprained ankle? Would Tolzein convince Lacy to make curfew? Starks ran for 12 yards on the first two plays. Starks and Lacy combined for 7 yards on their remaining 12 runs. Does Tolzein fix that issue?

Do you think Cobb is playing up to his standard? Davante Adams couldn't catch a beach ball right now slathered in stick'em. No one has stepped up to fill Jordy's void. Does Tolzein heal Cobb's shoulder or fix Adams' hands?

You simply aren't being objective claiming the only player that has regressed this year is Rodgers.
Born and bred a cheesehead
Zero2Cool
9 years ago
If Scott Tolzien (it is i before e) were better than Aaron Rodgers, wouldn't he have been traded before the deadline? We do not get see how players practice so it's really hard to say Tolzien would have made Throw X that Aaron did not. Did we forget about the games we have seen Tolzien play in?

I'm astonished anyone is stubbornly trying to validate benching a Super Bowl MVP, a two time NFL MVP and someone who has held the all time highest career quarterback rating in the NFL for Scott Tolzien. Scott. Tolzien!!

As I wrote earlier last week, Aaron Rodgers is not THE problem, he is only A problem. I'll take 80% Rodgers over a 100% Tolzien and if you like the Packers winning, you should too!
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DoddPower
9 years ago

You simply aren't being objective claiming the only player that has regressed this year is Rodgers.

Originally Posted by: mi_keys 



Great post!

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