Richard Rodgers could help Packers' red-zone issues· Page 2

uffda udfa
Veteran Member

9 years ago

Sometimes I think I am not a good person for discussion boards because I hate making comparisons. Having said that, a team that picks near the end of the draft every year isn't bound to have the best receiver in the league.

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules

Dez Bryant was taken AFTER we picked in Round 1.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

DarkaneRules
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#12

Oh yeah! That means that every team that picked before us are just as dumb as we are!

Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance

uffda udfa
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#13

Oh yeah! That means that every team that picked before us are just as dumb as we are!

Originally Posted by: DarkaneRules

Yup...just like with Randy Moss.

I respect our org for the way we don't gamble all the time on poor character guys. That can be a bad way to go.

If I had to pick Jordy or Dez for my team for one season, I'd go with Jordy because he's of excellent character where Dez is a total wildcard. Dez is more talented but the gap is not so wide that I would take the risk. For Moss I would've. The gap was too wide not to take the chance.

Z has to be going crazy with this talk of WR's but isn't hard to type about Richard Rodgers? Even his name is boring. If this guy can just be a little better than average he'll be a big help.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

9 years ago

#14

Dez Bryant was taken AFTER we picked in Round 1.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

The subject is about Richard Rodgers and red zone issues. What do you have to add on the subject being discussed here? Thank you.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#15

The subject is about Richard Rodgers and red zone issues. What do you have to add on the subject being discussed here? Thank you.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

Not much. Who does? This is the kind of topic that spins off because it's not a good topic and nobody really believes it.

It's like writing a topic about Quarless or Perillo. Who is going to be into that? Well, Quarless was exciting for the time he was in the headlines for his idiocy but other than that our TE group is as ho hum as anything. It's as fun as the proverbial watching paint dry.

Jeff Janis might help RZ woes would be just as boring and pointless and you know how I'm perceived when it comes to Janis.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

buckeyepackfan
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#16

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

I enjoy talking about the current Packer players.
I would suggest if you don't like the topic, then STFU!

Rodgers is a 2nd year guy who flashed some last year, but needed work on his blocking.
From all camp reports he has vastly improved his blocking and has made that 1st to 2nd year jump.
Can't wait to see him as part of what will arguably be the best offense in the league.

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!

earthquake
Member

9 years ago

#17

Richard Rodgers is such an exciting player that, of course, the topic is going to evolve away from him because it isn't much fun talking about a run of the mill NFL TE even if he does play for the Packers.

You like to dance around things. Who would you rather face if you were a DB...oh, that's DEFENSIVE BACK just to be clear not some pejorative term. If you had to line up vs. one WR with everything on the line would you rather line up against Jordy Nelson or Dez Bryant? I hope that question isn't too vague for you. It's very simple.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Both players have pros/cons. Gun to my head and ignoring everything I know about Bryant? Probably Nelson, but only by the slightest of margins.

Dez had more TD catches last season than Jordy ever had in a single season.

Yeah that sounds like a good point, but its 16 vs 15. Not a significant difference. A better argument would be Bryant's TD average per season.

Dez has topped 1200 yards in a season in 5 seasons in the NFL while Jordy has topped 1200 the same amount in 7 seasons.

Dez has 381 receptions in 5 seasons...Jordy has 400 in 7. I'm going to guess that Dez has more than 19 receptions over the next two seasons to best Jordy's numbers after 7.

All true, though Jordy dealt with an injury situation in 2012 that skewed his stats for that year. Not an excuse, but worth noting.

Jordy's two best seasons were his 6th and 7th... Dez is entering his 6th.

It's safe to say that it took Jordy longer to develop than Dez, or that Jordy had better players in front of him. Probably a bit of both but I wouldn't argue with either sentiment.

Dez has ROMO... Jordy has 12.

While I of course agree that Rodgers is a better QB than Romo, Romo isn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination, his career passer rating is 97.6. Romo's worst attribute is his propensity for boneheaded plays at the worse moment, which hurts his team but doesn't affect his WR's performance in a significant way.

Anyway while I think this is a solid point, I don't consider it a huge factor, especially if you look at 2013 where Nelson put up very good numbers catching balls from Flynn and Tolzien.

Dez Bryant changes the way D's play. If a D. coord had to choose one guy to double cover if both were on the field together is he double covering Jordy or Dez?

Same answer as above, but only by the slightest of margins.

Who has Dez Bryant had opposite him? Anyone the caliber of Randall Cobb? Dez does have Witten while Jordy has slop so that might help wash that a little.

Dez Bryant has had arguably the best RB in the league the last few years. The Packers run a system that typically spreads the ball around to more players, while the Cowboys lean more heavily on Dez Bryant, despite this, Dez has never put up Calvin Johnson type numbers, only about on par or slightly better than Jordy Nelson, who typically has more competition for targets (2014 being an exception when Nelson was targeted more than Bryant).

I looked at their stats on a 3 year average, taking each players best three years, which should present a better picture of what each player is capable and ignores outside factors like entrenched veterans playing ahead of them.

Nelson:
83 REC, 1365 YARDS, 15.4 AVG, 9.33 TD

Bryant
91 REC, 1312 YARDS, 14.4 AVG, 13.66 TD

Nelson typically does more with less in terms of yards, but Bryant scores significantly more TDs.

Anyway, it's fun to discuss something quantifiable rather than rhetoric for a change. I stand by my original position that Jordy Nelson is a legit #1 WR, probably top 5 in the league. Bryant may be slightly better than Nelson, but that doesn't negate my point.

blank

uffda udfa
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#18

Both players have pros/cons. Gun to my head and ignoring everything I know about Bryant? Probably Nelson, but only by the slightest of margins.

Yeah that sounds like a good point, but its 16 vs 15. Not a significant difference. A better argument would be Bryant's TD average per season.

All true, though Jordy dealt with an injury situation in 2012 that skewed his stats for that year. Not an excuse, but worth noting.

It's safe to say that it took Jordy longer to develop than Dez, or that Jordy had better players in front of him. Probably a bit of both but I wouldn't argue with either sentiment.

While I of course agree that Rodgers is a better QB than Romo, Romo isn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination, his career passer rating is 97.6. Romo's worst attribute is his propensity for boneheaded plays at the worse moment, which hurts his team but doesn't affect his WR's performance in a significant way.

Anyway while I think this is a solid point, I don't consider it a huge factor, especially if you look at 2013 where Nelson put up very good numbers catching balls from Flynn and Tolzien.

Same answer as above, but only by the slightest of margins.

Dez Bryant has had arguably the best RB in the league the last few years. The Packers run a system that typically spreads the ball around to more players, while the Cowboys lean more heavily on Dez Bryant, despite this, Dez has never put up Calvin Johnson type numbers, only about on par or slightly better than Jordy Nelson, who typically has more competition for targets (2014 being an exception when Nelson was targeted more than Bryant).

I looked at their stats on a 3 year average, taking each players best three years, which should present a better picture of what each player is capable and ignores outside factors like entrenched veterans playing ahead of them.

Nelson:
83 REC, 1365 YARDS, 15.4 AVG, 9.33 TD

Bryant
91 REC, 1312 YARDS, 14.4 AVG, 13.66 TD

Nelson typically does more with less in terms of yards, but Bryant scores significantly more TDs.

Anyway, it's fun to discuss something quantifiable rather than rhetoric for a change. I stand by my original position that Jordy Nelson is a legit #1 WR, probably top 5 in the league. Bryant may be slightly better than Nelson, but that doesn't negate my point.

Originally Posted by: earthquake

I got nothin'. 😁 Hard to argue what you've typed, here.

Well, I have a little somethin' but not in the way of disagreement with what you've shared... Dez was a child when he came into this league. He's only 26 now while Jordy is almost 4 full years his senior, although, they were drafted two seasons apart. Dez produced at 25 what it took Jordy to produce in his late 20's. Dez has a good 4-5 year window to really tear it up while Jordy's is winding down. Not sure Dez has hit his peak while I think Jordy likely pinnacled out last season.

BTW, this same logic is why I thought if it came down to it I would prefer we retained Randall over Jordy. The age factor can't be understated in the Not For Long NFL.

Also, I will continue lamenting we don't have BOTH on our roster. Dez and Jordy... AND RC18? That's just simply ridiculous right there.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

DarkaneRules
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#19

Z has to be going crazy with this talk of WR's but isn't hard to type about Richard Rodgers?Even his name is boring.If this guy can just be a little better than average he'll be a big help.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Even his name is boring hahahaha

Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance

Barfarn
Senior Member

9 years ago

#20

The red zone efficiency [RZE] thing is all about NOTHING! But, MM is on top of this one and to the extent it was deficient it will improve in 2015.

What makes a good/bad RZE team is not the %; but the % of TDs RELATIVE to the league. In 2014, as Z2C pointed out, GB was 11th in the league [63-36, 57%]. Oakland was #1 at 71%, which is an insignificant outlier stat, as they had by far the fewest RZ attempts and probably got a few down by 50 points. GB and NE led the league 2010-2012 at just under 65% and #2 in 2014 was Dallas at 64.91% [33 of 51]. So 65% signifies RZE “stellarness.” If we had the same # of RZ trips as Dallas the difference between 57 and 65% is 4 TDs of which Crosby kicks at least 3 field goals; ergo the difference in GB’s and stellar RZE is 19 points or 1.2 points per game.

Note: excluded from these RZ stats is a Cobb’s 22 yard TD at Chic.; Addams’ 21 yrd TD v. Car.

At Cheesehead TV a nice article by Reuter on August 20, points out*:
The difference between 57 and 64% becomes even more trivial when adjusting for GB taking a knee to end a game in the RZ twice*, boosting their RZE to 59%. Now only 3 TDs or 15 points [If 2 FGs are made] separate GB from being RZ stellar.

And GB had two drives start outside the 20 and stalled inside the 20*, if discounting those drives, our RZE is 61%.

And Reuter points out in 2014 how in the first 7 weeks GB had a 78% RZE and 53% thereafter; which correlated to increase in RZ runs by Lacy. I believe the said correlation is a causal one, which I described in the sky is [not] falling thread last week w/ the solution partly being Rodgers:

“Counter- intuitively, our RZ difficulties have arisen with the emergence of Lacy!

On 1st and 10 at the 8, prior to Lacy Mike McCarthy knew we had to throw to score a TD and took 3 chances throwing to get the TD.

Now with Lacy, our tendency on 1st down, Mike McCarthy calls Lacy's #. And the Ds learned this tendency and expected us to run. If Lacey gets zip, we now have reduced our chances to score by 33%. If Lacy gets 5, we run on second, then run on 3rd and 1 w/ a "power formation" and kick a FG.

The problem is our O-line. As good as they are; they are not road graders. Lacy's yards come from the OL using trap blocks; creating cut back lanes, by pushing DLman in the direction they're already heading; walling off or reach blocking to prevent a DLman from getting to hole; OL , TEs and WR blocking exceptionally on 2nd and 3rd levels; etc. But ask them to move 4 DL back one yard on 3rd and 1 or 2; they simply stink. And last yr our best road grader's toe [Sitton] de-road graded him.

Success in the RZ will return in 2015, because Mike McCarthy has self-scouted the said tendencies and weaknesses. All of us, if rooting for the team GB was playing, and opposing DCs love it when the ball is taken from AR's hands. Also helping is the drafting of a beast-like, TE-like WR [Monty] and the emergence of wide-butt max catch-radiused Rodgers.”

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