greengold
9 years ago

Honestly Richard Rodgers and Gronk do not belong in the same sentence. Gronk is a once in a decade player, Rodgers will be a quality starter.

Originally Posted by: Bigbyfan 



But I love the antagonist. He posts ONE thing that is true (e.g. Gronkowski is better than Rodgers,) then fills up the page with hatred towards Richard Rodgers, the Packers, Ted Thompson, and Packers fans.

Anyone who disagrees with him is labeled a dumb homer who thinks Rodgers is better than Gronkowski.

uffda udfa
9 years ago

But I love the antagonist. He posts ONE thing that is true (e.g. Gronkowski is better than Rodgers,) then fills up the page with hatred towards Richard Rodgers, the Packers, Ted Thompson, and Packers fans.

Anyone who disagrees with him is labeled a dumb homer who thinks Rodgers is better than Gronkowski.

Originally Posted by: greengold 



If you disagree that Rodgers is anywhere Gronk then...yes. If not, the rest of your allegation is unequivocally false.

Where is my hatred toward Richard Rodgers? Where? Where is my hatred toward TT? I don't hate Packers fans...any of them. What I hate is when a Packers fan can't see reality because he/she is a Packers fan.

I would disagree with your conclusion that I have posted ONE thing that is true...ALL the things I post are true but your blind spot isn't small enough to see. Fortunately, it is small enough to realize Gronk and Rodgers aren't comparable TE's.

What would you have me do? Agree with someone who tells me I don't know what I'm talking about and then proceeds to post Paul Coffman's stats along with some other obscure Packers TE's and intimates that they were in Gronk's class? It's total craziness. Koolaid through the veins. Same as the Boykin and Adams deal from last year. It never ends. Whatever is Packers is automatically "x" amount of times better than reality simply because it's Packers. That is maddening, I'm sorry,..but to me it is. I don't love the Packers any less but that has nothing to do with clear vision.



UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
9 years ago
Why are we talking Rob Gronkowski in this topic about Green Bay Packers Tight End's? Was there a trade I missed?
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Why are we talking Rob Gronkowski in this topic about Green Bay Packers Tight End's? Was there a trade I missed?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



There would be no reason to trade...they're basically the same player.

Heck, we were discussing Jimmy Graham just fine, you even were in the fray and it was fine and orderly, and I mentioned Graham was "Gronk-like". Next thing ya know, post #27, nerd is touting RR as on par with Gronkowski. nerd is the one who wanted to make the direct comparison. I was lamenting not having that type of game changer at the position that we could've had we acquired Jimmy.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


68md
9 years ago
OK back to the topic at hand. Is it the weakest position ?

I don't think so because with a new OC/play caller you don't know how much TE heavy stuff they call for. I expect Edgar to run more and mix in roll outs and no huddle spread.

Not even sure at this point our TE will be as active as the past. I hate to keep saying this everywhere. Need to get the pads on and go full speed vs another team. Better idea of what we will look like after that.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

OK back to the topic at hand. Is it the weakest position ?

I don't think so because with a new OC/play caller you don't know how much TE heavy stuff they call for. I expect Edgar to run more and mix in roll outs and no huddle spread.

Not even sure at this point our TE will be as active as the past. I hate to keep saying this everywhere. Need to get the pads on and go full speed vs another team. Better idea of what we will look like after that.

Originally Posted by: 68md 



Edgar is Sherm Lewis...he won't be running anything. Clements is the guy calling the plays.

I would agree, though, that given our talent level at TE it would be foolish to emphasize them.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
9 years ago


What would you have me do? Agree with someone who tells me I don't know what I'm talking about and then proceeds to post Paul Coffman's stats along with some other obscure Packers TE's and intimates that they were in Gronk's class? It's total craziness. Koolaid through the veins. Same as the Boykin and Adams deal from last year. It never ends. Whatever is Packers is automatically "x" amount of times better than reality simply because it's Packers. That is maddening, I'm sorry,..but to me it is. I don't love the Packers any less but that has nothing to do with clear vision.


Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You can disagree with something someone says no matter how crazy it sounds without letting it consume you for 3 days. Especially when pretty much everyone else here disagreed with it too. It's not like you have to work super hard to convince most that Rodgers is not on the level of Rob Gronkowski yet you took over the thread with it and still won't let it go. If something sounds super crazy to you just say your piece and move on.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

You can disagree with something someone says no matter how crazy it sounds without letting it consume you for 3 days. Especially when pretty much everyone else here disagreed with it too. It's not like you have to work super hard to convince most that Rodgers is not on the level of Rob Gronkowski yet you took over the thread with it and still won't let it go. If something sounds super crazy to you just say your piece and move on.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I'm not so sure that most were on that train, Steve. nerd was one who wasn't. It didn't consume me...it's just something silly I saw that I had to respond to because there was a couple of folks who continued promoting this idea. Had it been one post, I would've left it alone but it was more than that.

It is a pet peeve when a fan of anything throws all rational thinking out the window and makes crazy statements. The person who is upset with me came after me and implied I was an idiot for not believing that RR was Gronk like or that our Packers have ever had anyone remotely like him.

We're all different. This turn in this topic is similar to many other things I feel strongly about that are already known of me.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
9 years ago

You may well be right, and to your point: RR did improve in the second half of the season. Also, A-Rod has been on record as saying that RR may have the best hands on the team -- a high complement considering who we have at WR.

The problem is that RR at his best in the second half still wasn't all that great. Sure, he went from 19th-worst pass blocker and 6th-worst run blocking TE up to 20th-best pass blocking TE and 48-best run blocking TE. (Source) 

However, RR still finished with the worst overall grade of all Packers offensive players of -12.3 and finished ranked 53rd out of 63 TEs overall. ((Source) 

Those are less-than-stellar numbers overall. RR no doubt will improve on those standings in year 2, but I don't know if I've seen anything to suggest he'll be the type of TE threat of Gronk (or even Finley). I cannot recall a single time that RR flat out beat any player in a foot speed last season; and I have not read anyone say that RR has that quick "twitch" that would indicate he can become a regular threat like Finley who can take Safeties deep.

I still retain some hope RR's YAC will improve, but it is quite common to see elements of players' games not translating from college to the Pros.

The one thing RR definitely has going for him is his hands. Maybe he shows something this season with being more elusive after the catch. Still, even if RR only improves as a blocker (which he should) he can still be pretty valuable to the offense; he hasn't shown improvement in his (albeit very young) career in speed or YAC.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



YOU READ IT HERE! LOL

All-about,

Ya got the stats nicely framed and you are correct: they do not reflect a stellar playing TE. But, the stats do reflect a stellar playing GB ROOKIE TE. Try thinking this way [Side Note: In 2013, Lacey was tied for 23 in yrds/rush...was he the 23rd-ish best RB in 2013?]:

Learning to an effective GB WR is simply IMPOSSIBLE as a rookie. To be effective a WR needs to understand everything that is in AR’s head. GB trains its rookie receivers first to be proficient in ONE POSITION, the X, Y or Z. Then once they begin to develop a sufficient level of quality at that one position they are spoon fed more. It’s done this way, because to give them more oversploads their brains. Several really good WRs have been rookies in GB since Holmgren and NOT A SINGLE ONE had been effective as a rookie. All these guys didn’t become a little better; they became A LOT better.

Now with Rodgers’ brain on overloaded learning the route tree like a WR; he has to know all the zone blocking schemes for running. Note that assignments change depending on D’s presnap lineup and change after the snap when, EG, a MLB does this or a Safety does that...IT IS COMPLICATED. Then he has to learn the pass blocking schemes that are similarly COMPLICATED as an assignment can change a dozen ways on one play depending how the D lines up and then can change a dozen more ways depending on what the D does after the snap. Then he has to know these pass and run blocking assignments as both a FB and a TE. Oh and he plays on special teams too and has to learn that.

I mean, we do all understand how hard this is: Rodgers has to learn what a WR, RB and OLman need to learn to play effectively; right?!?!?

Next, I believe it is real hard to block, say DeAndre Levy. But imagine you had to block Levy, if Lacey goes through the B gap and the MLB does not fill B gap; if he does then you block the MLB; or if the DE spills in and Lacey bounces through the C gap then ya gotta get the box safety or CB, whoever you can reach first...etc. Rodgers is not sitting thinking to himself, “im gonna smash that Levy;” his mind is first trying to recall his role in the damn play; then in a second refocusing that thought to the audible; then reading the D alignment’s reaction to the audible to gauge his assignment; and then having that assignment change instantly at the snap because of an unexpected move by any of 5-6 Defensive players.

With all this in his mind it’s a wonder he could block anyone; this is why Finley didn’t play at all as a rookie; he was only trusted for a handful of select plays to get him some PT.

Rodgers is a 100% class act and a very serious man. As Rodgers develops mental acuity for his assignment his physical performance will improve exponentially. He will get FASTER. Receivers don’t get open with their feet; they get open with their mind! As he masters the mental side of the game; his “burst” will not be as slow and deliberate. When his assignment instantly changes depending on the flow of the D; his mind won’t stop to think; it’ll force a quick twitch movement to get open or to soundly execute that block. This is what I mean by “thinking being replaced by instinct.” Rodgers will develop that quick twitch, though will never be said to have great foot speed; but when he masters his assignment; reads the D just like AR; and learns to read the hips, feet and eyes of his defender and at the perfect moment make his moves to get separation; he will get separation and sometimes get a lot.

The stats cited reflect that Rodgers will be as dangerous as Ed West blocking and Finley receiving once this comes together; that is stellar. Again, getting open is 10% about speed; 90% knowing when and how to move for separation and having the acumen to know when and where to be for QB. Note: Finley was not nearly as skilled a route runner as Rodgers will be.
nerdmann
9 years ago

YOU READ IT HERE! LOL

All-about,

Ya got the stats nicely framed and you are correct: they do not reflect a stellar playing TE. But, the stats do reflect a stellar playing GB ROOKIE TE. Try thinking this way [Side Note: In 2013, Lacey was tied for 23 in yrds/rush...was he the 23rd-ish best RB in 2013?]:

Learning to an effective GB WR is simply IMPOSSIBLE as a rookie. To be effective a WR needs to understand everything that is in AR’s head. GB trains its rookie receivers first to be proficient in ONE POSITION, the X, Y or Z. Then once they begin to develop a sufficient level of quality at that one position they are spoon fed more. It’s done this way, because to give them more oversploads their brains. Several really good WRs have been rookies in GB since Holmgren and NOT A SINGLE ONE had been effective as a rookie. All these guys didn’t become a little better; they became A LOT better.

Now with Rodgers’ brain on overloaded learning the route tree like a WR; he has to know all the zone blocking schemes for running. Note that assignments change depending on D’s presnap lineup and change after the snap when, EG, a MLB does this or a Safety does that...IT IS COMPLICATED. Then he has to learn the pass blocking schemes that are similarly COMPLICATED as an assignment can change a dozen ways on one play depending how the D lines up and then can change a dozen more ways depending on what the D does after the snap. Then he has to know these pass and run blocking assignments as both a FB and a TE. Oh and he plays on special teams too and has to learn that.

I mean, we do all understand how hard this is: Rodgers has to learn what a WR, RB and OLman need to learn to play effectively; right?!?!?

Next, I believe it is real hard to block, say DeAndre Levy. But imagine you had to block Levy, if Lacey goes through the B gap and the MLB does not fill B gap; if he does then you block the MLB; or if the DE spills in and Lacey bounces through the C gap then ya gotta get the box safety or CB, whoever you can reach first...etc. Rodgers is not sitting thinking to himself, “im gonna smash that Levy;” his mind is first trying to recall his role in the damn play; then in a second refocusing that thought to the audible; then reading the D alignment’s reaction to the audible to gauge his assignment; and then having that assignment change instantly at the snap because of an unexpected move by any of 5-6 Defensive players.

With all this in his mind it’s a wonder he could block anyone; this is why Finley didn’t play at all as a rookie; he was only trusted for a handful of select plays to get him some PT.

Rodgers is a 100% class act and a very serious man. As Rodgers develops mental acuity for his assignment his physical performance will improve exponentially. He will get FASTER. Receivers don’t get open with their feet; they get open with their mind! As he masters the mental side of the game; his “burst” will not be as slow and deliberate. When his assignment instantly changes depending on the flow of the D; his mind won’t stop to think; it’ll force a quick twitch movement to get open or to soundly execute that block. This is what I mean by “thinking being replaced by instinct.” Rodgers will develop that quick twitch, though will never be said to have great foot speed; but when he masters his assignment; reads the D just like AR; and learns to read the hips, feet and eyes of his defender and at the perfect moment make his moves to get separation; he will get separation and sometimes get a lot.

The stats cited reflect that Rodgers will be as dangerous as Ed West blocking and Finley receiving once this comes together; that is stellar. Again, getting open is 10% about speed; 90% knowing when and how to move for separation and having the acumen to know when and where to be for QB. Note: Finley was not nearly as skilled a route runner as Rodgers will be.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



RR outplayed Finley's rookie output by week three.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
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