uffda udfa
9 years ago
Thank you for the above post... I don't know if I could've taken much more of this RR madness.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago
It's strange finding myself siding with Uffda, but he's right on at least one point here. RR is nowhere near the player the Graham or Gronk are, he just isn't.

The "but those guys were the #1 target on their teams" argument goes both ways. That means the opposing defense is dedicating their top players to stop them, and they still put up solid numbers. Whoever the packer's TE is, they'll generally be the #4/5 option, yes this means less targets, but it also means they're going against a single linebacker or or safety rather than being doubled like Graham or Gronk.

Still, I don't think Graham was worth a 1st plus the contract, I wouldn't trade Nelson or Cobb for Graham straight up, so losing one of them and a first is nowhere near worth it.
blank
nerdmann
9 years ago

Some people are not really thinking about how our offense operates. We rely a lot on YAC. That has to be the starting point for any evaluation of our TE group.

Both RR and Quarless are, on their best day, thoroughly average TEs compared to the elite TEs in the NFL. That doesn't mean they are ill suited for us, or a "weak link" on offense. They need to be fast enough to get up the seam, and elusive enough to get YAC.

RR, frankly, was very disappointing last year. His college numbers suggested he would be a far better receiver; his YAC in college were amazing! For at least the first year, RR's college ability didn't translate. He was a subpar blocker. When the Packers TE coach called out RR needing to improve his "foot speed", that should tell you something (negative) about RR's ability to beat defenders up the seam. I sincerely hope we see RR resemble more of his college self; but, in college he was like 20 pounds lighter than the Packers play their TEs, so that may just be wishful thinking.

Quarless is a good #2 option, but isn't going to get you much in terms of YAC or consistently beating players up the seam. Again, doesn't give the Packers what they exactly need.

So, is our TE group our O's weakest link? Yeah, for two reasons: 1) the quality of other position players on our O is great; and 2) the TEs themselves don't exactly excel at what our offense needs (and they were subpar blockers at times last year, too).

That said, Aaron Rodgers as your QB is a huge advantage, as is having Lacy consistently getting 4+ YPC to require safties to commit at the LOS. We can still win with this TE group, and as last year showed win big. However, unless RR is a revelation, this TE group can definitely stand to be improved.

PS - Would trade RR for Gronk in a heartbeat, then spend the rest of the day laughing / boasting that Belichick got taken to the cleaners by Ted. None of our TEs have shown anything more than being average at this level.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



That's all true, but RR was just a rookie. It always takes a year for a WR to get up to speed, TEs are very similar in that way. RR doesn't have the raw straight line speed of Gronk, but he plays plenty fast enough to get open and get it done. I thought he was very good with YAC.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
uffda udfa
9 years ago
Gronk tallied 10 TD's as a rookie...in his second season he had 90 receptions for 1327 yards and 17 TD's. RR might be lucky to get 17 TD's in his Packers career.

Gronk has appeared in 55 games and has 54 TD's. I will all but guarantee Richard Rodgers doesn't come close to 54 TD's in his career if he plays 15 seasons but Gronk did it in just 55 games.

Nerd...you have just got to be joking. Gotta be. Gronkowski is one of the most unstoppable forces the NFL has ever seen and you're saying RR is comparable. RR is comparable to Andrew Quarless whom I suppose is also Gronk-like.


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


nerdmann
9 years ago

Gronk tallied 10 TD's as a rookie...in his second season he had 90 receptions for 1327 yards and 17 TD's. RR might be lucky to get 17 TD's in his Packers career.

Gronk has appeared in 55 games and has 54 TD's. I will all but guarantee Richard Rodgers doesn't come close to 54 TD's in his career if he plays 15 seasons but Gronk did it in just 55 games.

Nerd...you have just got to be joking. Gotta be. Gronkowski is one of the most unstoppable forces the NFL has ever seen and you're saying RR is comparable. RR is comparable to Andrew Quarless whom I suppose is also Gronk-like.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Gronk's a little bit overrated. As you said, he's the focus of their offense.

RR will get 50+ receptions this year, barring injury.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Gronk's a little bit overrated. As you said, he's the focus of their offense.

RR will get 50+ receptions this year, barring injury.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



50 receptions? Gronk had 90 his second season and 1327 yards...and, oh...SEVENTEEN TOUCHDOWNS.

Yup, these two are comparable????????????????????????????????????😕


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Barfarn
9 years ago

That's all true, but RR was just a rookie. It always takes a year for a WR to get up to speed, TEs are very similar in that way. RR doesn't have the raw straight line speed of Gronk, but he plays plenty fast enough to get open and get it done. I thought he was very good with YAC.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



ABSOLUTELY NERD! Rodgers was STELLAR in his rookie year.

True his blocking wasn't that great and his football speed needs improvement. But GB TEs need to know not only what a WR does; but they need to know run and pass blocking schemes both as a FB and a TE. Rodgers contributing ANYTHING would have been nice; what he did in 2014 was extraordinary.

He will get faster and turn into a devastating blocker over the next 2 years as his thinking and indecision give way to quick twitch reactions. He already has outstanding hands, body control instincts to muscle his way open and a great catch radius. And his daddy taught him to be a man. He will be something special when he and Aaron Rodgers develop that Montana-Clark thing. I'd rather have Gronk-he's a stud; but Graham is one of the worst TEs in the game and a petulant child. He's a good receiver, but not a star in any way. All of you would think of him as no better than a bad blocking Gresham if Andy Dalton was his QB. Gresham is an okay receiver; but he's not a game changer and Graham is no better.

If YAC is important Graham's not the guy...he was #63. And he was:

Tied for #11 w/ most fumbles

Only D. Thomas and B. Marshall have more drops over last 3 years.

In 1st downs per target for NO WRs he was very below average:
1. Colsten
2. Stills
3. Toon
4. Hill
5. Graham
6. Cooks
7. Watson
8. Meacheam

And again as a TE he stinks! Those I know in NO [and trust me they know football] were quite happy to have Graham gone; that were absolutely bewildered that a team would give up Unger and a first to pay $8M for a cancer guy worth no more than $3-4M. They say many of his drops are key 3rd drive killers and that he his horrible at all the little things. Ignore the big stats and the highlights and you'll see a guy that just doesn't help a team win. Oh and all those redzone TDs are contrary indicator stat; if he was really that good, the DCs would game plan against him and he'd have less.
texaspackerbacker
9 years ago
The point of that New Orleans stat, I say again, is that it's a helluva lot of better to target wide receivers than even elite tight ends.

Everything seems to come back to this bullshit about Ted Thompson, pro and con. The original topic, and what still is the most significant, is the role and quality of the TE position in the Packers offense. I'm very content with R. Rodgers and Quarless as possession receivers and blockers, and part time bench warmers with 3 or 4 or 5 WRs on the field.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago

The point of that New Orleans stat, I say again, is that it's a helluva lot of better to target wide receivers than even elite tight ends.

Everything seems to come back to this bullshit about Ted Thompson, pro and con. The original topic, and what still is the most significant, is the role and quality of the TE position in the Packers offense. I'm very content with R. Rodgers and Quarless as possession receivers and blockers, and part time bench warmers with 3 or 4 or 5 WRs on the field.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



This time it actually has morphed into a bizarre propping up of Richard Rodgers as Rob Gronkowski's near equal. That has nothing to do with Ted Thompson but the delusion follows along that similar line.

Green Bay has NEVER had a TE in it's history that was close to Rob Gronkowski. Keith Jackson wasn't even close.


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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


all_about_da_packers
9 years ago

That's all true, but RR was just a rookie. It always takes a year for a WR to get up to speed, TEs are very similar in that way. RR doesn't have the raw straight line speed of Gronk, but he plays plenty fast enough to get open and get it done. I thought he was very good with YAC.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



You may well be right, and to your point: RR did improve in the second half of the season. Also, A-Rod has been on record as saying that RR may have the best hands on the team -- a high complement considering who we have at WR.

The problem is that RR at his best in the second half still wasn't all that great. Sure, he went from 19th-worst pass blocker and 6th-worst run blocking TE up to 20th-best pass blocking TE and 48-best run blocking TE. (Source) 

However, RR still finished with the worst overall grade of all Packers offensive players of -12.3 and finished ranked 53rd out of 63 TEs overall. ((Source) 

Those are less-than-stellar numbers overall. RR no doubt will improve on those standings in year 2, but I don't know if I've seen anything to suggest he'll be the type of TE threat of Gronk (or even Finley). I cannot recall a single time that RR flat out beat any player in a foot speed last season; and I have not read anyone say that RR has that quick "twitch" that would indicate he can become a regular threat like Finley who can take Safeties deep.

I still retain some hope RR's YAC will improve, but it is quite common to see elements of players' games not translating from college to the Pros.

The one thing RR definitely has going for him is his hands. Maybe he shows something this season with being more elusive after the catch. Still, even if RR only improves as a blocker (which he should) he can still be pretty valuable to the offense; he hasn't shown improvement in his (albeit very young) career in speed or YAC.


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