PackerTraxx
9 years ago
It's quite understandable that Boykin had more trust from the staff than Janis. Janis quite clearly has much more of an upside but small college to the pros is a huge jump. I expect to see a huge jump, after having a year in the program, from Janis this year.
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nerdmann
9 years ago

Quite true, but we (myself included here) always seem eager to drop the returning guy in favor of the unknown guy. In this case, both are actually unknown.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I love Abbrederis, I still hope he makes it.

But this MOntgomery kid has skills.
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PackerTraxx
9 years ago
I wouldn't be surprised to see six wide receivers on the team and two on the practice squad, if someone else doesn't grab them. I see a good dose of 5 wide coming this year, at least that is my hope.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago
Unless there's injury to either Abby, Janis or our "Big 3" I would all but guarantee 6 WR's make this team, and possibly 7.

Montgomery is a lock...he makes 4 locks. We didn't want to lose Janis on the PS so we rostered him, so I can't see how he doesn't make it again. He makes 5. I'm sure the org felt they got a steal in Abbrederis and want to see what he has to offer, so I can't see him going. That's 6.

Are we really going to cut a guy like Pinkard or Coxson if they light it up in pre-season? I'd rather have 7 WR's and have Montgomery/Cobb as the emergency RB's than to lose a STUD WR. Jordy is closing toward his end. A few more and he's done.
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texaspackerbacker
9 years ago
I also wouldn't mind keeping 7 WRs. Didn't we keep 5 WRs and 5 TEs a couple of years ago? So 7 WRs and 3 TEs is not out of line at all.

The thing that got me about Janis - and various other seemingly talented young players - Jayrone Elliot comes to mind the most - is that talented young players on other teams, particularly wideouts, don't get basically red-shirted. They get their experience on the field. McCarthy and the Packers are exceptionally prone to being overly cautious that way.
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gbguy20
9 years ago

I also wouldn't mind keeping 7 WRs. Didn't we keep 5 WRs and 5 TEs a couple of years ago? So 7 WRs and 3 TEs is not out of line at all.

The thing that got me about Janis - and various other seemingly talented young players - Jayrone Elliot comes to mind the most - is that talented young players on other teams, particularly wideouts, don't get basically red-shirted. They get their experience on the field. McCarthy and the Packers are exceptionally prone to being overly cautious that way.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



We did carry an obscene amount of TEs not too long ago.
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Bigbyfan
9 years ago
I just read that Janis got some time with 1s today. Even capped off a 2 minute drill with a TD catch from Rodgers.
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greengold
9 years ago

We did carry an obscene amount of TEs not too long ago.

Originally Posted by: gbguy20 



I think they carried 5 one year. Of course that was with only 2 QBs, 1 FB, and probably only 7 O-linemen.

It will be interesting to see how it shakes out but I think they keep 3 QBs and possibly 2 FBs putting roster spots at a premium.



Barfarn
9 years ago

Thanks for the link hahahaha. It's hard to believe he - an NFL coach judging talent - could have concluded that Boykin was better - or doing better.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Here’s some of the things Janis needs to get down before he can play effectively, the measurables/talent are only 10% of being a WR:

1. Where he has to go whether WR is playing r, h, x, y or z.

2. The time he needs to be at a certain spot [EG if he's third read in progression, he often will need to delay his move for separation to a certain spot and/or time].

3. How 1 and 2 change depending on the alignment of the D [After a play is called, routes often change depending on whether, EG, the D shows, EG, a cover 0, 1, 2 or 3 look].

4. How 1 and 2 change if D makes pre-snap adjustments [The D may show, EG, a cover 2 and then drop a safety in box, this will often change the routes of the WRs].

5. How 1 and 2 change if D adjusts after snap [The D may show, EG, a Cover 2 and then at the snap transition to a Cover 3 by dropping a safety into the hook zone, this will often change the routes of the WRs].

6. How 1 and 2 change if there's a blitz [If the D blitzes of routes are shortened and or otherwise adjusted and this may have several variable depending whether the blitzer is a CB, a S, a LB and/or whether a DLman drops into coverage].

7. When running his route the way the CB plays him can change whether he does, EG, a stop and go, aback shoulder, dig, come back, etc.

8. Often the after snap movement of the safety will similarly cause an alteration of the route.

9. If Aaron Rodgers audibles to run, WR needs to know his blocking assignment and this can change depending on the alignment, last second shift or unexpected movement of D after snap.

ETC.

After getting all this down, Janis needs to understand what Aaron Rodgers sees and when. EG, if the play calls for Janis to set up for a back shoulder if CB stays on top and flips his hips, Janis needs to process EXACTLY WHEN Aaron Rodgers will see this movement. If Aaron Rodgers is looking for the flip in 1.5 seconds and Janis not seeing the flip at 1 second runs a go; the play fails.

If Janis runs his route wrong, it probably will sabotage the entire play. The route trees and progressions are designed to account for the D’s reaction. EG, Read one slant left is jumped by box safety; read two TE deep right seem is doubled by CB and deep safety; read three Janis on shallow cross needing only to beat CB that had outside leverage and should be wide open. But if Janis aint there or not there at the appropriate time, Aaron Rodgers takes a hit from the DL. The entire play is sabotaged by one wrong route.

And then there’s the obvious like Cobb in champ game; where Cobb curled up instead of continuing his shallow cross and Maxwell INTed.

The coaches work w/ these guys every day. Over a period of time Janis gets reps w/ various QBs in camp and probably a few from AR. The tape is broken down, he's assigned a grade and it is explained what he did wrong/right on each play. Note: he doesn't have to get ball to be graded on his route running.

Over several other periods of time, he gets X # more reps and the same grading is done...and this occurs probably 1x per week each week.

If during one week Janis ran 38 of 40 routes perfect for Flynn, Aaron Rodgers would develop trust. And he get more reps w/ AR. Remember practice time is limited; each rep is precious and most cant be used on a guy who's not gonna play.

Bennett can even test him as they're walking to the parking lot [Jeff you're playing "H in 2x2" in a flip left double-Z Omaha jet 619 619 Blue five Z Thirds naked waggle on 2 and the Will moves to LOS 2 feet outside of weakside T; explain your route reads and adjustments on those reads"]. ESPN reported that when questioned like this Janis would routinely clutch his left arm, drop to ground and fake a heart attack-LOL j/k of course].

Now, it gets very simple, if Janis dont get this in practice he's not going to play; if he gets it in practice he will play. He may even play if his acumen is slightly below another WR; but his charted grades are improving steadily upward at a more rapid rate.

Note: Mike McCarthy said Janis' catch radius was not that good as well. This means the ball has to be more perfect than for other WRs to catch the ball. This becomes really critical on shorter inside routes, where the less than perfect pass instead of being caught by Jordy or Cobb bounces off Janis hands for an INT.

And as has been mentioned, even if Janis is a little better than WR #4; but WR 4 is better at special teams, Janis sits.
texaspackerbacker
9 years ago
My main agenda in starting this thread was to complain a little bit about the lack of use of Janis last season and to express the STRONG hope that situation will be remedied this year with the coaching changes on offense.

I hear crap about Janis can't play because he went to a small college, etc.. A lot of small colleges play just as sophisticated passing offense as major colleges - and some major colleges play less.

Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens all came from small or mid-major colleges, not to mention Greg Jennings. I don't remember any of them getting extended periods of inactivity for games. Other teams tend to let their rookies get experience on the field, not the bench.

The whole long laundry list in the previous post of what Janis can't do/needs to learn/whatever strikes me as nothing more than lame excuses. What Janis showed on the field in limited playing time in the preseason belies these "can'ts" and "needs". At very least, his speed and size should have made him an asset on special teams.

I'm generally satisfied with McCarthy's coaching, although he'd have to be pretty bad to not win with Aaron Rodgers playing. Just the same, this aspect - slowness to put young players on the field/seniority system/whatever is a hole in his game. Janis is far from the only case of that. Elliot, Tolzien, Barrington early on, maybe Goodson if he really has some talent, maybe Pennell, Starks early in his career, etc.

The few exceptions to this tendency have been fairly successful - Bakhtiari and Linsley (and O Line supposedly requires more learning that WR or most defensive positions), Richard Rodgers etc.
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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