I'm just going to quote and call out a couple points, here - I constantly hear about how there's a resistance to playing in Green Bay, but I have yet to see any real proof of it. Instead, it seems that fans assume there's a resistance because the team hasn't signed a player or players that they wanted the team to sign.

Williams, we don't know the deal there - he's well known for wanting tons of cash wherever he goes, and we've all seen his ego at work. There's as good a chance that he never intended to coach in GB and was just using us as leverage as there is that we somehow failed to land him. We got Capers, and the 'wisdom' on that was he'd go to NYC and coach w/ Coughlin again - how did that happen, if we're such an undesirable place?

NOW, that said: It's well-documented that Thompson isn't a big spender in FA. That's true, and I don't see a problem with any fan wanting that to be different, or complaining about it.

If I've seen a consistent complaint about some posters, it's that they don't say "I'm disappointed in the job Thompson's doing and I don't think he'll get better - I wish we had a different GM" - instead we get posts like "Ha! I told you all that Thompson sucks! Ha! The team lost and it's proving me right! Ted Thompson is the embodiment of all that is evil in the world, and the Green Bay Packers will be losers until he's burned!" Okay, that's an exaggeration, but the criticism this time was simply about the constant negativity, everywhere.

But I'm just another voice here, so whatevs. I would like more proof, be it anecdotal or something more concrete, that players don't want to play in GB, though - until someone can prove it, I just don't buy it.

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On the Williams deal, you have just about every insider saying that Williams took the Packers figures and leveraged them against the Saints.. which is fine it is business.. Since Caper got 2 million a year after this discounted year and the report I heard out of NO is a little above 2 million a year.. we can surmise that we offered Williams a fair deal.

Why he took that job over this one.. whom knows. Am I upset about it, nope.

In the post that you so artfully chopped bits and pieces that fit your argument, all I was trying to do is illustrate that there are events over the past couple of years that can support some skepticism along the lines of free agent signings and players spurning us for a different location.

Griffin, the report I believe was weather, Arrington who cares.. Smith,, never heard the reason why, I believe their deal was a better one.

Personally.. I like the approach, although I would be a little happier if he would have signed a free agent Olineman or two over the past 3 years.. not a bargain maybe like Klemm, but a bonifide NFL starting guard.

You have an equal voice here.. but so do those that have skepticism in their posts.. they have events that support that theory just as much as when I look at the roster and see depth and talent..

We don't need a ton of parts this season.. just a few along the lines.. and a few position coaches to get the max potential out of their players.

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BTW... you want proof.. then show me where a player has chosen us over another team for the same position.. maybe Pickett.

I listed three players.. the Arrington deal has been mentioned over and over..

We are not an active team in FA.. so it will be hard to generate a lengthy list either direction of the argument.

I think you may be reading to much into my post as well.. just trying to illustrate that there is some basis for the "reluctance of players to come here" argument.. and that posters shouldn't be called out for voicing it either.

That hater label is a pet peeve of mine.. the era of BS needs to find a home in the past.

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Okay, whoops. I knew I shouldn't have joined this conversation. My intent was not to artfully clip anything; I cut the pieces I had questions about, not in an effort to call you or anyone out.

I'm just another Packers fan - I don't claim to match the research and knowledge of any of the rest of you, and I can guarantee you that I don't wrap as much of myself into this as most of you. I'm not into arguing on the internet, so if I pissed you off I apologize.

Personally, I think the reports that players don't want to come to GB are exaggerated, and when they do choose a place it has more to do with lifestyle and other fit issues than it does with a bad reputation. I don't dispute that Thompson's MO is not to pay a lot of money in FA, nor do I dispute that players could look at that and choose accordingly.

Again, I'm sorry if you took my questions as an attack. I'm just going to sit back and be optimistic about the new DC and possibilities for the off-season.

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LOL.. first things first... I am not pissed nor likely anytime to get pissed off.. the only poster that managed to do that on a regular basis doesn't post here often. :lol:

Second, I didn't take them as an attack, moreso, I thought my basic premise of the post was missed.. and that is basically, I can see the points of those with skepticism, while I may not agree with them, I can see why they think the way they so.

And personally, I think calling them out as "haters" is something that should cease.

There are poster that stir trouble and some that actually have an opinion that doesn't match the mainstream... but they are an individual with a right to that opinion.

As long as they keep it within common logic and decency towards others, I don't see why they should be labeled anything but a fan with a varied opinion.

I don't think I have ever seen you label a poster, so that isn't a personal statement.. more or less if the shoe fits..

And lastly.. sorry if I offended.. I have a tendency to be blunt and direct.. and if nothing else opinionated to the core. :lol:

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I too hold that belief, that there are situational reasons for each decision..

But one can see how some cling to the premise based on a few different events..

I wonder how one forms a perception of a event? What forms an individuals view of a event with depth?

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I think people are inclined towards their perceptions - in some cases, it's a past event (i.e. Randy Moss not being acquired), in other cases it's probably provided by environment (i.e. varied perceptions of the inner city; someone born there versus someone raised in a rural setting).

Obviously, Thompson isn't a weak personality - so he's going to rub some people the wrong way. Add that to a public perception that Thompson failed or declined to go after some FA candidates that a lot of fans wanted in GB, and an anti-Thompson stance is, as you say, somewhat understandable.

In the end, none of it matters - he'll do what he does, we'll discuss it to death, and eventually the team will hit the field and there'll be something concrete to discuss.

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Bingo.. that is the very reason why I think the infighting is silly.

Sure debate stances on a civil level without labels.. most long term posters here have a genuine love of the Packers.. they just might not agree with the franchise compass bearing at the current time.

Since we haven't won it all but have gotten close.. they is plenty of room on both sides for a posters opinion to lay..

Back to topic.. Vilma doesn't fit the 3-4 mold very well.. that has been proven in NY.. so he is likely out of contention of signing here.

Peppers.. his contract demands and risk / reward ratio are out of whack for a experimental move to the 3-4... sorry don't see it happening.

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I did a little research to see what Thompson has done in FA since '05 (seems like it would fit in this thread, but if it needs to be moved that's cool):

Notable 2005 FA signings: Matt O'Dwyer and Adrian Klemm (OG), Samkon Gado (RB), Donald Lee (TE) and Rod Gardner (WR). Of these, only Lee is still with the team. If I recall correctly, O'Dwyer was thought to be a decent get, though he flamed out. Klemm was a stretch and also fizzled. Gado was a good role player.

Notable 2006 FA signings: Marquand Manuel (S), Ryan Pickett (DT), Ben Taylor (LB), Charles Woodson (CB). Pickett and Woodson, obviously, have been solid contributors. Manuel (a personal head-scratcher for me at the time, though it's not like our safeties were good) flopped, and for the life of me I don't even remember Ben Taylor.

Notable 2007 FA signings: Frank Walker (CB). Whew, that wasn't a good one (though he played reasonably well for the Ravens this year). I'll add that he did trade for Grant, who was basically our savior at RB that year.

Notable 2008 FA signings: Brandon Chillar (LB), Joe Toledo (OT), Thomas Gafford (LS). Chillar, IMO, was a contributor and could be a good player down the road. The other two I know nothing about.

Note, I haven't tried to compile every single FA signing, but am focusing on the notable ones. I didn't have time to search out a comprehensive list, so if I'm missing anyone important please point that out.

So. Not a stellar track record, when you focus solely on FA, which we all know isn't his preferred method of team-building. Still; Lee, Pick, Woody, and Chillar aren't bad. As for Moss, I didn't want him at the time and I will not be convinced that we would have beat the Giants if we had him - I know others feel differently, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Who are the other players we missed on? I'm asking sincerely, in terms of seeing all sides of the argument. Other players that people wanted or were rumored to be coming here? Arrington, the two FBs that 93z mentioned, who else?

It's a big stretch to argue that he's brought in a ton of talent, but he's proven that he does use FA and has brought significant contributors in that way. It seems that this year is probably a year when a significant signing or two would be most beneficial, so I'm interested to see if he's got that Wolfe-like instinct to make the moves when they're needed and will help. I hope he does.

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I think the bottom line here is to consider what Ted Thompson was brought in here for and the situation the team was in at the time.

The roster was getting old, our depth beyond starters was non-existent, Favre was already talking about the tractor, and even our own prior GM was saying we had less than NFL caliber starters at various positions.

Ted Thompson was brought in to get the Cap managed properly and get an aging team younger and build quality depth into the roster and I am quite certain knew he had to find the future QB for the team as well.

The recipe was just not conducive for paying high end experienced FA's who all pretty much knew GB was reloading.

I will say this. Based on any reasonable timetable the '07 season and 13-3 came ahead of it's time but for every good break and close win we pulled out that year what goes around came around in '08.

2007 advanced the expectations and shortened the timetable for him and for the team. In short, the situation now is DIFFERENT than in the past because this last season went in REVERSE instead of a steady building process. We have not been a couple of FA's away from being a contender and in a place where feet are closer to the fire as they are now.

I thank Ted Thompson for getting us this far along this fast.

I believe this coming season with more urgency to improve certain aspects of the team and calling for a new defense will prompt Ted Thompson to do what need to be done to get us where we need to be.

You see I don't believe Ted Thompson has anything against FA at all. I don't think FA was the move to make.....until now. I think now he will make that move.

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