uffda udfa
10 years ago

do we grade Aaron on his scrambling ability or look at the total package to determine his value as a qb? I never said Ted was/n't a great drafter, I just said subjective draft grades don't tell us much of anything.

As greenngold just wrote, draft grades ignore the udfas which are a part of a draft process and as I alluded to with my Aaron Rodgers analogy, however well you or some interent analyst grade his past drafts are meaningless...what is the total body of work with cap management, the draft, udfa, retention, free agency, etc?

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Why weren't those points raised until the leg was cut out that he was a great drafter? I would say those are important... but retaining your own doesn't improve your franchise... it keeps it the same, or can weaken it if you overpay your own which Ted Thompson likely did with Shields, Cobb and Bulaga. I hail his signing of Cobb. I felt he had to do that. Shields I'm mixed on... and I think it was a mistake to give what he gave to Bulaga. If you want to talk totality remember he failed to retain Cullen Jenkins who was a big part of our SB winning D. A really nice player... not a superstar but a non Ted Thompson UDFA who really played well minus his injury problems. Not signing Cullen and then giving big money to Hawk was a MAJOR mistake...one that had ramifications that kept our D subpar for the past several years. You can't hardly grade him on FA, so he gets an incomplete grade there. He's a middle of the road GM riding Rodgers who does well with street guys and drafting WR's. That's him.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
10 years ago

AJ Hawk for where he was drafted was a miss. The author of that puff piece even acknowledged Hawk never lived up to his promise. I would call that a miss. Same with Colledge. Never a good player. A tick below average Olineman. Yes, he got money from AZ but Erik Walden got money from Indy. If Hawk and Colledge are your building blocks your house is going to crumble. Had Hawk and Colledge been 5th and 6th rounders they're still just decent picks...not great players.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I agree, as would many people I'd imagine. However there were duds before and after AJ. Bush and especially Vince Young flopped. AJ was at least at times solid albeit never a spectacular player in the NFL.
greengold
10 years ago

AJ Hawk for where he was drafted was a miss. The author of that puff piece even acknowledged Hawk never lived up to his promise. I would call that a miss. Same with Colledge. Never a good player. A tick below average Olineman. Yes, he got money from AZ but Erik Walden got money from Indy. If Hawk and Colledge are your building blocks your house is going to crumble. Had Hawk and Colledge been 5th and 6th rounders they're still just decent picks...not great players.

Oh, I forgot to reemphasize Ted Thompson has been good at drafting WR's...that and UDFA's like Tramon and Sammy are his strengths.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Again with the extremes. I never said Hawk and Colledge were great players. I said they played in the NFL for 9 years. Plenty of draft picks (even first rounders!) don't last 5 years in the NFL. That is a miss. There is a HUGE difference between being a great player, playing for 9 years, and being a miss (IMO.)

Again, I don't know the pedigree of the guy you quoted, but it didn't look like he accounted for where they were drafted, just "good" or "miss" for the most part. I'm sorry if that offends you.


musccy
10 years ago
Retaining your own is still part of the calculated risks with a roster and cap, though. Belichck has been lauded in hindsight for knowing when to let guys go.

I agree about Jenkins and overpaying Bulaga, but letting EDS walk for a cheap replacement worked, same with Greg and James Jones...it's more than just who you're retaining, it's knowing who to retain and let go.
+2
uffda udfa
10 years ago

Again with the extremes. I never said Hawk and Colledge were great players. I said they played in the NFL for 9 years. Plenty of draft picks (even first rounders!) don't last 5 years in the NFL. That is a miss. There is a HUGE difference between being a great player, playing for 9 years, and being a miss (IMO.)

Again, I don't know the pedigree of the guy you quoted, but it didn't look like he accounted for where they were drafted, just "good" or "miss" for the most part. I'm sorry if that offends you.


Originally Posted by: greengold 



I'm not offended at all. Staying in the league for 9 years is impressive. It doesn't mean you're a good player. Hawk and Colledge were two guys we could've never drafted and been just as good without. Ted Thompson could find UDFA's as good or better than those two and when you consider they were 1st and 2nd rounders that's pretty depressing.

I just hope Ted Thompson can boost his "legend" with a great draft this season. I really hope he hits on a 1st rounder who can help right away.
Ted Thompson is not a bad drafter. He's a little better than average. He really needs to hit on some defensive picks this time around. No more Thornton's. Bradford's and Goodson's. I wish he'd just draft WR's and trade them for proven defensive players. Play to your strengths. 🤣

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


greengold
10 years ago

Retaining your own is still part of the calculated risks with a roster and cap, though. Belichck has been lauded in hindsight for knowing when to let guys go.

I agree about Jenkins and overpaying Bulaga, but letting EDS walk for a cheap replacement worked, same with Greg and James Jones...it's more than just who you're retaining, it's knowing who to retain and let go.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

uffda udfa
10 years ago

Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

Originally Posted by: greengold 



Cullen was let go so Ted Thompson could give AJ Hawk a 5 year 33.75 million contract. Cullen was the player who should've gotten the money but the (cough cough) Ted Thompson draft pick got the money instead. Cullen would've signed for less and given us much more than that stiff. A compound mistake by Ted Thompson that had negative impact on our team and D for years.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


musccy
10 years ago

Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

Originally Posted by: greengold 



Ultimately I'm happy Bulaga was retained. continuity on a line that was successful is never a bad thing, I just felt we spent too much to do that. I'm nitpicking though.

Cullen had a good first year but off memory nose dived quickly thereafter. Hawk was younger and Ted loved him since college.

Ted moved on from Woodson and Favre at unpopular times too. As you said, you can't keep them all and usually he's been pretty good making those tough decisions.
nerdmann
10 years ago

Again with the extremes. I never said Hawk and Colledge were great players. I said they played in the NFL for 9 years. Plenty of draft picks (even first rounders!) don't last 5 years in the NFL. That is a miss. There is a HUGE difference between being a great player, playing for 9 years, and being a miss (IMO.)

Again, I don't know the pedigree of the guy you quoted, but it didn't look like he accounted for where they were drafted, just "good" or "miss" for the most part. I'm sorry if that offends you.


Originally Posted by: greengold 



Alot of these guys are good enough to play in the NFL, just not on OUR team.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Do you know why I did that? I would be charged with my anti-TT bias. You wouldn't respect what I have to say because you don't on what I've said about TT. Anything I say about him is going to be written off due to the messenger. It doesn't matter how true and correct it is.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 

Copying someone else is just being lazy and shows you do not have conviction in what you say and are doing so just out of spite, not actual belief.

Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

Originally Posted by: greengold 



The mistake was the Packers waited until the market set his value to offer him a deal. If they had offered the same deal earlier, he would have most likely signed it, but once he was scorned, there was no deal the Packers could offer that he would have signed. This is how the Packers operate and he even acknowledged he knew as such after the season concluded. Jenkins was also turning 30 and missed seventeen games during his last three seasons with the Packers.

The piece the defense missed most was Nick Collins, not Jenkins. However, it is easier to fault Ted Thompson for Jenkins than it is for Collins, thus Jenkins is inappropriately used as a tool to fuel hate.
UserPostedImage
Similar Topics
Users browsing this topic
    Fan Shout
    dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
    dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
    dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
    Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
    wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
    Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
    Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
    Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
    Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
    Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
    buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
    Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
    Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
    dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
    Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
    Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
    wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
    wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
    wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
    wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
    wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
    packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
    Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
    bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
    Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
    Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
    Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
    Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
    dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
    Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
    Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
    dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
    dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
    Please sign in to use Fan Shout
    2025 Packers Schedule
    Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
    LIONS
    Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
    COMMANDERS
    Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
    Browns
    Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
    Cowboys
    Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
    BENGALS
    Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
    Cardinals
    Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
    Steelers
    Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
    PANTHERS
    Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
    EAGLES
    Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
    Giants
    Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
    VIKINGS
    Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
    Lions
    Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
    BEARS
    Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
    Broncos
    Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
    Bears
    Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
    RAVENS
    Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
    Vikings
    Recent Topics
    16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

    14-Jun / Community Welcome! / dfosterf

    13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

    13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Adam

    12-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    11-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

    10-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

    7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

    6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

    Headlines
    Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.