Ron Wolf: Legend. Ted Thompson: Failure.· Page 18

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

do we grade Aaron on his scrambling ability or look at the total package to determine his value as a qb? I never said Ted was/n't a great drafter, I just said subjective draft grades don't tell us much of anything.

As greenngold just wrote, draft grades ignore the udfas which are a part of a draft process and as I alluded to with my Aaron Rodgers analogy, however well you or some interent analyst grade his past drafts are meaningless...what is the total body of work with cap management, the draft, udfa, retention, free agency, etc?

Originally Posted by: musccy

Why weren't those points raised until the leg was cut out that he was a great drafter? I would say those are important... but retaining your own doesn't improve your franchise... it keeps it the same, or can weaken it if you overpay your own which Ted Thompson likely did with Shields, Cobb and Bulaga. I hail his signing of Cobb. I felt he had to do that. Shields I'm mixed on... and I think it was a mistake to give what he gave to Bulaga. If you want to talk totality remember he failed to retain Cullen Jenkins who was a big part of our SB winning D. A really nice player... not a superstar but a non Ted Thompson UDFA who really played well minus his injury problems. Not signing Cullen and then giving big money to Hawk was a MAJOR mistake...one that had ramifications that kept our D subpar for the past several years. You can't hardly grade him on FA, so he gets an incomplete grade there. He's a middle of the road GM riding Rodgers who does well with street guys and drafting WR's. That's him.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#172

AJ Hawk for where he was drafted was a miss. The author of that puff piece even acknowledged Hawk never lived up to his promise. I would call that a miss. Same with Colledge. Never a good player. A tick below average Olineman. Yes, he got money from AZ but Erik Walden got money from Indy. If Hawk and Colledge are your building blocks your house is going to crumble. Had Hawk and Colledge been 5th and 6th rounders they're still just decent picks...not great players.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

I agree, as would many people I'd imagine. However there were duds before and after AJ. Bush and especially Vince Young flopped. AJ was at least at times solid albeit never a spectacular player in the NFL.

greengold
Member

9 years ago

#173

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Again with the extremes. I never said Hawk and Colledge were great players. I said they played in the NFL for 9 years. Plenty of draft picks (even first rounders!) don't last 5 years in the NFL. That is a miss. There is a HUGE difference between being a great player, playing for 9 years, and being a miss (IMO.)

Again, I don't know the pedigree of the guy you quoted, but it didn't look like he accounted for where they were drafted, just "good" or "miss" for the most part. I'm sorry if that offends you.

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#174

Retaining your own is still part of the calculated risks with a roster and cap, though. Belichck has been lauded in hindsight for knowing when to let guys go.

I agree about Jenkins and overpaying Bulaga, but letting EDS walk for a cheap replacement worked, same with Greg and James Jones...it's more than just who you're retaining, it's knowing who to retain and let go.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#175

Originally Posted by: greengold

I'm not offended at all. Staying in the league for 9 years is impressive. It doesn't mean you're a good player. Hawk and Colledge were two guys we could've never drafted and been just as good without. Ted Thompson could find UDFA's as good or better than those two and when you consider they were 1st and 2nd rounders that's pretty depressing.

I just hope Ted Thompson can boost his "legend" with a great draft this season. I really hope he hits on a 1st rounder who can help right away.
Ted Thompson is not a bad drafter. He's a little better than average. He really needs to hit on some defensive picks this time around. No more Thornton's. Bradford's and Goodson's. I wish he'd just draft WR's and trade them for proven defensive players. Play to your strengths. 🤣

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

greengold
Member

9 years ago

#176

Originally Posted by: musccy

Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#177

Originally Posted by: greengold

Cullen was let go so Ted Thompson could give AJ Hawk a 5 year 33.75 million contract. Cullen was the player who should've gotten the money but the (cough cough) Ted Thompson draft pick got the money instead. Cullen would've signed for less and given us much more than that stiff. A compound mistake by Ted Thompson that had negative impact on our team and D for years.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#178

Originally Posted by: greengold

Ultimately I'm happy Bulaga was retained. continuity on a line that was successful is never a bad thing, I just felt we spent too much to do that. I'm nitpicking though.

Cullen had a good first year but off memory nose dived quickly thereafter. Hawk was younger and Ted loved him since college.

Ted moved on from Woodson and Favre at unpopular times too. As you said, you can't keep them all and usually he's been pretty good making those tough decisions.

nerdmann
Premier Member

9 years ago

#179

Originally Posted by: greengold

Alot of these guys are good enough to play in the NFL, just not on OUR team.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

9 years ago

#180

Do you know why I did that? I would be charged with my anti-TT bias. You wouldn't respect what I have to say because you don't on what I've said about TT. Anything I say about him is going to be written off due to the messenger. It doesn't matter how true and correct it is.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Copying someone else is just being lazy and shows you do not have conviction in what you say and are doing so just out of spite, not actual belief.

Originally Posted by: greengold

The mistake was the Packers waited until the market set his value to offer him a deal. If they had offered the same deal earlier, he would have most likely signed it, but once he was scorned, there was no deal the Packers could offer that he would have signed. This is how the Packers operate and he even acknowledged he knew as such after the season concluded. Jenkins was also turning 30 and missed seventeen games during his last three seasons with the Packers.

The piece the defense missed most was Nick Collins, not Jenkins. However, it is easier to fault Ted Thompson for Jenkins than it is for Collins, thus Jenkins is inappropriately used as a tool to fuel hate.

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beast (19h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (23h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread

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