Ron Wolf: Legend. Ted Thompson: Failure.· Page 18

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

do we grade Aaron on his scrambling ability or look at the total package to determine his value as a qb? I never said Ted was/n't a great drafter, I just said subjective draft grades don't tell us much of anything.

As greenngold just wrote, draft grades ignore the udfas which are a part of a draft process and as I alluded to with my Aaron Rodgers analogy, however well you or some interent analyst grade his past drafts are meaningless...what is the total body of work with cap management, the draft, udfa, retention, free agency, etc?

Originally Posted by: musccy

Why weren't those points raised until the leg was cut out that he was a great drafter? I would say those are important... but retaining your own doesn't improve your franchise... it keeps it the same, or can weaken it if you overpay your own which Ted Thompson likely did with Shields, Cobb and Bulaga. I hail his signing of Cobb. I felt he had to do that. Shields I'm mixed on... and I think it was a mistake to give what he gave to Bulaga. If you want to talk totality remember he failed to retain Cullen Jenkins who was a big part of our SB winning D. A really nice player... not a superstar but a non Ted Thompson UDFA who really played well minus his injury problems. Not signing Cullen and then giving big money to Hawk was a MAJOR mistake...one that had ramifications that kept our D subpar for the past several years. You can't hardly grade him on FA, so he gets an incomplete grade there. He's a middle of the road GM riding Rodgers who does well with street guys and drafting WR's. That's him.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#172

AJ Hawk for where he was drafted was a miss. The author of that puff piece even acknowledged Hawk never lived up to his promise. I would call that a miss. Same with Colledge. Never a good player. A tick below average Olineman. Yes, he got money from AZ but Erik Walden got money from Indy. If Hawk and Colledge are your building blocks your house is going to crumble. Had Hawk and Colledge been 5th and 6th rounders they're still just decent picks...not great players.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

I agree, as would many people I'd imagine. However there were duds before and after AJ. Bush and especially Vince Young flopped. AJ was at least at times solid albeit never a spectacular player in the NFL.

greengold
Member

9 years ago

#173

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Again with the extremes. I never said Hawk and Colledge were great players. I said they played in the NFL for 9 years. Plenty of draft picks (even first rounders!) don't last 5 years in the NFL. That is a miss. There is a HUGE difference between being a great player, playing for 9 years, and being a miss (IMO.)

Again, I don't know the pedigree of the guy you quoted, but it didn't look like he accounted for where they were drafted, just "good" or "miss" for the most part. I'm sorry if that offends you.

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#174

Retaining your own is still part of the calculated risks with a roster and cap, though. Belichck has been lauded in hindsight for knowing when to let guys go.

I agree about Jenkins and overpaying Bulaga, but letting EDS walk for a cheap replacement worked, same with Greg and James Jones...it's more than just who you're retaining, it's knowing who to retain and let go.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#175

Originally Posted by: greengold

I'm not offended at all. Staying in the league for 9 years is impressive. It doesn't mean you're a good player. Hawk and Colledge were two guys we could've never drafted and been just as good without. Ted Thompson could find UDFA's as good or better than those two and when you consider they were 1st and 2nd rounders that's pretty depressing.

I just hope Ted Thompson can boost his "legend" with a great draft this season. I really hope he hits on a 1st rounder who can help right away.
Ted Thompson is not a bad drafter. He's a little better than average. He really needs to hit on some defensive picks this time around. No more Thornton's. Bradford's and Goodson's. I wish he'd just draft WR's and trade them for proven defensive players. Play to your strengths. 🤣

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

greengold
Member

9 years ago

#176

Originally Posted by: musccy

Cullen Jenkins had me scratching my head, maybe that was a mistake. I think the Eagles overpaid him. You can't keep them all.

Bulaga I think was given a fair contract. Of course if he spends the next two years on IR I will be proven wrong on that! 😊

The others, Jennings, Jones, EDS, don't forget Newhouse. You gotta guess right on who to keep and who to cut ties with to manage the cap. 👍

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

9 years ago

#177

Originally Posted by: greengold

Cullen was let go so Ted Thompson could give AJ Hawk a 5 year 33.75 million contract. Cullen was the player who should've gotten the money but the (cough cough) Ted Thompson draft pick got the money instead. Cullen would've signed for less and given us much more than that stiff. A compound mistake by Ted Thompson that had negative impact on our team and D for years.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

musccy
Veteran Member

9 years ago

#178

Originally Posted by: greengold

Ultimately I'm happy Bulaga was retained. continuity on a line that was successful is never a bad thing, I just felt we spent too much to do that. I'm nitpicking though.

Cullen had a good first year but off memory nose dived quickly thereafter. Hawk was younger and Ted loved him since college.

Ted moved on from Woodson and Favre at unpopular times too. As you said, you can't keep them all and usually he's been pretty good making those tough decisions.

nerdmann
Premier Member

9 years ago

#179

Originally Posted by: greengold

Alot of these guys are good enough to play in the NFL, just not on OUR team.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

9 years ago

#180

Do you know why I did that? I would be charged with my anti-TT bias. You wouldn't respect what I have to say because you don't on what I've said about TT. Anything I say about him is going to be written off due to the messenger. It doesn't matter how true and correct it is.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Copying someone else is just being lazy and shows you do not have conviction in what you say and are doing so just out of spite, not actual belief.

Originally Posted by: greengold

The mistake was the Packers waited until the market set his value to offer him a deal. If they had offered the same deal earlier, he would have most likely signed it, but once he was scorned, there was no deal the Packers could offer that he would have signed. This is how the Packers operate and he even acknowledged he knew as such after the season concluded. Jenkins was also turning 30 and missed seventeen games during his last three seasons with the Packers.

The piece the defense missed most was Nick Collins, not Jenkins. However, it is easier to fault Ted Thompson for Jenkins than it is for Collins, thus Jenkins is inappropriately used as a tool to fuel hate.

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Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Trade, cut or keep

dfosterf (16-Apr) : that from Jaire

dfosterf (16-Apr) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.

dfosterf (16-Apr) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility

dfosterf (16-Apr) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission

dfosterf (16-Apr) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : That someone ... likely the agent.

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.

Zero2Cool (16-Apr) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.

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dfosterf (16-Apr) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"

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dfosterf (16-Apr) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent

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Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024

Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.

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