texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

Tramon played through severe nerve damage in his arm that brought down from the level of one of the most elite CBs in the league to just pretty good. Took more than two years for those nerves to regenerate, but he battled throught it. Dude is a warrior, he deserves the paycheck.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Yes, he deserves the money based on past performance, but better it be the other team that pays him, because I doubt he will do well enough to justify that much in the future. Just the same, I'm glad he's playing for a team the Packers don't see much of.


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luigis
10 years ago

I don't know where you're getting all this from. Shields is extremely talented and was the only corner in our team who put himself in a position to contest his opponent week in and week out.

And Hayward, as explained earlier, finished third in DROY voting. His 2nd year, like Shields' was hampered by injuries, and I thought he bounced back fine this year.

Tramon Williams has been straight trash ever since the end of the Super Bowl year. The man did himself no favors during the 15-1 season, constantly getting beat. His success was tied to the fact that Charles Woodson opposite him played so well. Against opposing teams' #1 receiver, Williams is a lock to disappoint. I loved him when nobody knew him, but we're past that now.

Shields, Hayward, and Hyde will be fine. Our secondary will be absolutely fine unless Jarrett Bush finds his way onto the field on defense.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard 



Shields is very good covering average WRs and very bad covering elite WRs, there's a threshold where he just fails. Last season he was being eaten alive by Julius Jones until Whitt removed him for House, House did ok against Jones. Shields also struggled against Megatron. Shields is not a pure breed CB, he plays the CB position in his own way, he peaks at the backfield all the time and trusts his speed to be enough to recover if needed. So I agree with you he is talented but I strongly disagree he contested his opponent week after week, he had a lot of struggles last season.

Tramon on the other hand became a shutdown cover in our SB season, they couldn't just throw his way as Matt Ryan must remember very well. Then he got a very nasty injury and found a way to play injured at a very good level, as good as being a starter for our team.

The jury is still out about Hayward. I'm afraid this is the season the truth will be revealed.

I'm going to agree with you that if Bush finds a way to play defense we are doomed 🙂
Luis
steveishere
10 years ago
Guess you missed week 17 when they threw to Calvin 6 times while Shields was covering him and he allowed a single catch or last year when they threw at Shields to him 7 times and he only allowed 3 catches. Can you remember anything notable that Dez Bryant did in the playoffs besides the catch that wasn't? (which wasn't even a play where he had bad coverage)

Seriously tho, where are you coming up with this stuff? It's like you are embellishing the good points of CBs who have gone and severely downplaying the good points of players that are here. That's not a good way to make your point. Do you have anything to say that's actually true?

If you wanna come with something like Shields tends to bite too hard on double moves or he gets hurt too much that's one thing but to bring garbage like he's terrible against good WRs or not bother to mention that Tramon gave up a lot more plays than Shields did last year really hurts your credibility.
nerdmann
10 years ago

Shields is very good covering average WRs and very bad covering elite WRs, there's a threshold where he just fails. Last season he was being eaten alive by Julius Jones until Whitt removed him for House, House did ok against Jones. Shields also struggled against Megatron. Shields is not a pure breed CB, he plays the CB position in his own way, he peaks at the backfield all the time and trusts his speed to be enough to recover if needed. So I agree with you he is talented but I strongly disagree he contested his opponent week after week, he had a lot of struggles last season.

Tramon on the other hand became a shutdown cover in our SB season, they couldn't just throw his way as Matt Ryan must remember very well. Then he got a very nasty injury and found a way to play injured at a very good level, as good as being a starter for our team.

The jury is still out about Hayward. I'm afraid this is the season the truth will be revealed.

I'm going to agree with you that if Bush finds a way to play defense we are doomed :)

Originally Posted by: luigis 



In fairness to Shields, he was paying through injury this year.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago
Hayward and Hyde are okay. But I'd rather the team had someone better starting in front of them.

They are B-level players. Teams can win with lots of B-level players. But they should always be looking to upgrade them to B+, A-, or A-level players, too.

If you're content with good, you'll never be great.

IMO.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
luigis
10 years ago

Guess you missed week 17 when they threw to Calvin 6 times while Shields was covering him and he allowed a single catch or last year when they threw at Shields to him 7 times and he only allowed 3 catches. Can you remember anything notable that Dez Bryant did in the playoffs besides the catch that wasn't? (which wasn't even a play where he had bad coverage)

Seriously tho, where are you coming up with this stuff? It's like you are embellishing the good points of CBs who have gone and severely downplaying the good points of players that are here. That's not a good way to make your point. Do you have anything to say that's actually true?

If you wanna come with something like Shields tends to bite too hard on double moves or he gets hurt too much that's one thing but to bring garbage like he's terrible against good WRs or not bother to mention that Tramon gave up a lot more plays than Shields did last year really hurts your credibility.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



I might be wrong in my evaluation. But I don't think being wrong will affect my credibility. After all we just say what we think.
I would love to go over film with you so we can discuss this, maybe you convince me I'm wrong, maybe I convince you about my points or maybe we agree about something in the middle.
Luis
steveishere
10 years ago

I might be wrong in my evaluation. But I don't think being wrong will affect my credibility. After all we just say what we think.
I would love to go over film with you so we can discuss this, maybe you convince me I'm wrong, maybe I convince you about my points or maybe we agree about something in the middle.

Originally Posted by: luigis 



It's not about being wrong that's hurting your credibility it's being so obviously 1 sided. How apparently Shields having "a lot of struggles" is such a big deal yet Tramon was playing at a "very good level" with no mention of him having just as many or more struggles even though he was healthier. Complaining of Haywards tackling while touting House as a CB even though he's no better of a tackler. If you want to give an objective take on specific strengths or weaknesses of each CB then do so but enough with the embelishment of weaknesses and disregard of strengths.
sschind
10 years ago

Guess you missed week 17 when they threw to Calvin 6 times while Shields was covering him and he allowed a single catch or last year when they threw at Shields to him 7 times and he only allowed 3 catches. Can you remember anything notable that Dez Bryant did in the playoffs besides the catch that wasn't? (which wasn't even a play where he had bad coverage)

Seriously tho, where are you coming up with this stuff? It's like you are embellishing the good points of CBs who have gone and severely downplaying the good points of players that are here. That's not a good way to make your point. Do you have anything to say that's actually true?

If you wanna come with something like Shields tends to bite too hard on double moves or he gets hurt too much that's one thing but to bring garbage like he's terrible against good WRs or not bother to mention that Tramon gave up a lot more plays than Shields did last year really hurts your credibility.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



So what you are saying is that it is OK for one to be subjective but not OK for one to be subjectively subjective.::d

sschind
10 years ago

Hayward and Hyde are okay. But I'd rather the team had someone better starting in front of them.

They are B-level players. Teams can win with lots of B-level players. But they should always be looking to upgrade them to B+, A-, or A-level players, too.

If you're content with good, you'll never be great.

IMO.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



We would all like players better than the ones we have starting (if possible) and I agree, you should always be looking to upgrade but upgrading is not always possible. There are lots of reasons why teams may have to settle for B grade players at certain positions for a year or two and it may not be because they are content with good. It may simply be they have other needs they deem more pressing. It may be there are no B+, A- or A level players available at a price they feel they can manage or it may be that they think the player you have graded as a B level player is really a B+, A- or A level player.

I'm not saying this to belittle your remarks as I do think you were simply stating the obvious. I just don't think Ted is content with being good as some of you seem to think. He just has a different opinion as to what what makes us better.
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

Hayward and Hyde are okay. But I'd rather the team had someone better starting in front of them.

They are B-level players. Teams can win with lots of B-level players. But they should always be looking to upgrade them to B+, A-, or A-level players, too.

If you're content with good, you'll never be great.

IMO.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



The Packers other than Aaron Rodgers are basically a B- level team. He is so A+++++, however, that he brings the team level up to at least A-.

I consider Hayward better than okay, better than B-, provided you don't factor in the chance of more hamstring problems. Hyde also is at least B- as a Corner, better if you include ability to play Safety, a lot better if you consider punt returns.


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