Mike Vandermause: Thompson gaffes contribute to down year· Page 2

Greg C.
Registered

15 years ago

I am always wary of this kind of criticism. I try to remember what I thought about the decision at the time it was made, instead of the easy way to go, which is 20/20 hindsight. I read this article twice, the second time reminding myself of what I have just stated here. Hindsight is a large part of what we do on these forums, but that doesn't lessen my irritation at this type of critique, as Yondermouse doesn't post here, he "posts" in a world heavily populated with Ted Thompson haters...the haters that will continue to blindly hate due to the decision as regards a certain HOF quarterback, and he knows it.

"dfosterf" wrote:

I don't have a problem with it, because I don't see Vandermause making any claims about having predicted that these moves would turn out bad. He even said that the Corey Williams trade "appeared shrewd at the time." This is just an analysis of what went wrong. And yes, a lot of these moves were widely criticized at the time they were made anyway.

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dfosterf
Veteran Member

15 years ago

#12

Here is what I said about the punter decision at the time: (Another forum)

Sep 4 2008, 07:48 AM
Post #12

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I found this move "off the wall". Heck, Jon was our leading rusher last week. We got trench trouble, and this is what gets done? Hodge goes, Bush stays? I'm not seein' it, unless it's a Ted Thompson 50/50 move or something... total disruption of the punting game, coupled with the retention of a semi-qualified Bush as ST player. I don't really give a crap about directional punting when my punter's butt is hanging over the back of his own end zone, and no one can tell me this new aquisition is superior in that situation.

My point is that my point got missed. Read the commentary in the JS Online or the GBP Gazette... More often than not, it seems like the article wasn't even read by the people posting, but rather is used as a vehicle for the "airing of the grievances". I don't doubt Ironman's objectivity for one second, but I DO doubt the objectivity of about 99% of the readers that take the time to respond to whatever MV. writes, and I feel like this type of critique only feeds a very tragic fire.

I will be happy to also find what I said (and say) about JH, but it is also irrelevant to my point.

Greg C.
Registered

15 years ago

#13

My point is that my point got missed. Read the commentary in the JS Online or the GBP Gazette... More often than not, it seems like the article wasn't even read by the people posting, but rather is used as a vehicle for the "airing of the grievances". I don't doubt Ironman's objectivity for one second, but I DO doubt the objectivity of about 99% of the readers that take the time to respond to whatever MV. writes, and I feel like this type of critique only feeds a very tragic fire.

I will be happy to also find what I said (and say) about JH, but it is also irrelevant to my point.

"dfosterf" wrote:

I occasionally glance at those comments from readers after the articles, and most of them are ridiculous. Both newspapers could improve their web sites by eliminating reader comments. I doubt very much that the writers let those comments affect what they write, though. The lunatic fringe can never be placated.

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Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

15 years ago

#14

Vandermause only praised the Rodgers decision after it became obvious it was going to pan out well (and the retraction he posted after the season was over was weak, at best). Before the season, he ripped Thompson ceaselessly for choosing Rodgers over Favre, among other decisions. Like most "sports analysts," Vandermause is a lame frontrunner. He'll heap all the team's successes on Thompson one week when the team wins, they blame all their problems on Thompson's decisions the next week when they lose. He doesn't take a season-long perspective.

mi_keys
Senior Member

15 years ago

#15

1.) It was a 5 game slide, not a 7 game slide. I get really annoyed when people get paid to write or talk about sports and they can't get simple facts like this right.

"Greg C." wrote:

I did a double-take on that one too, then I realized what he meant: The Packers slid from 13 wins in 2007 to 6 wins in 2008.

I think this is a pretty accurate breakdown of the major things that went wrong from a GM standpoint. A lot of it is just hindsight, of course, but there are some that looked bad right from the beginning. The decision to cut Jon Ryan is an obvious one. Also, he lowballed Ryan Grant, which might have made sense had he stuck to it, but then he ended up signing Grant to a big contract anyway.

It was a tough year for Ted. I sure hope he has another good run in him. For a couple years there, he was shitting little gold coins.

"mi_keys" wrote:

Ah, well if he did indeed mean it that way than my apologies for correcting him. I also hate it when people correct others who were correct to begin with, lol.

Born and bred a cheesehead

warhawk
Senior Member

15 years ago

#16

If Thompson is guilty of anything it's not going deep enough with the "what if" game and dealing with the scenario of "what if Jenkins goes down and KGB is done?" Now there are other contributing factors such as Harrell not being ready for many games and Jolly not performing at his best either.

The truth is all teams have weak points where if things don't go well in those areas with injuries that team is going to suffer. NO team is so strong and so deep in every segment of the game this won't happen.

IMO our two areas were EXACTLY what happened along the DL and #2 would have been if Arod went down.

To Thompson's credit if a DB or CB got hurt, which they did, that was covered. If a LB went down we were alright. A RB or WR? No big problem. A couple of decent shuffle moves could be made along the OL.

The hammer came down on the nail that happened to seal the coffin holding the cold body of our seasons fate when Jenkins went down and KGB failed to perform.

I look at it this way. It was unfortunate but it can be fixed. Between a new scheme and couple of new faces along the DL I look for way better next year.

"The train is leaving the station."

zombieslayer
Registered

15 years ago

#17

Yet, Vandermause has said over and over again that Thompson made the right decision going with Rodgers. Mike Vandermause is not a Ted basher.

And as far as hindsight goes; several people, including myself, questioned at the time, his decision to draft an injured DT in the 1st round, and his decision to, a week before the regular season, cut Jon Ryan, who's 37.6 net average in 2007, was the best by a Packers punter in 38 years, and then replaces him with a guy that didn't even have a try out. That was a terrible decision. And several people said so at the time of the decision.

"IronMan" wrote:

That's the thing. Yes, several of us did at the time question those 2 moves. I also questioned at the time getting rid of Corey Williams because Ted Thompson had faith in his first round bust of a DT.

So it's not always hindsight.

My man Donald Driver

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Zero2Cool
Elite Member

15 years ago

#18

Let's get something clear here. Williams was gone no matter what. He was not going to settle for anything less than twice what he was worth. We got something for NOTHING when we made the trade with the Browns.

Even with what happened, I wouldn't have paid him what he's getting now because he is not the player his salary implies he is. He would not have made that much of a difference as some people think he would.

Again, Williams was GONE and we snagged a 2nd rounder for him and then (in my opinion and I feel we need two more years for it to be a 'true' one at that) blew it away on Brohm.

Does anyone remember Williams kneeling down after the Seahawks game and getting emotional as if it he knew it was his last game at Lambeau?

Stop playing the hindsight game and blasting a GM who got something for nothing. Remember this quote? "I wanted out of Green Bay and I'm glad Cleveland called me".

Let's quit the if we had Williams talk because he didn't want to be here, and we were not going to spend the money on him that he wanted. He was not and is not worth the amount he's getting. He produced fairly decent stats because KGB and Kampman took quite a bit of attention and let's not forget having a stout secondary.

I am glad we didn't waste the money on him, but I am not glad we picked up Brohm and we didn't have an insurance plan worth a damn if/when Harrell got injured/flopped.

Sometimes you just don't have the resources to cover every single base. Sometimes you hit, sometimes you miss. We missed on our DL.

all_about_da_packers
Senior Member

15 years ago

#19

Does anyone remember Williams kneeling down after the Seahawks game and getting emotional as if it he knew it was his last game at Lambeau?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I think that was because Williams realized that may, keyword may, have been his last game as a Packer, at Lambeau.

If I remember correctly, when asked about the kneeling down after the Giants (not Seahawks) game at Lambeau, Williams admitted he got emotional realizing it may be the end of the line for him (and probably a little upset at coming so close and losing it like they did).

Let's quit the if we had Williams talk because he didn't want to be here, and we were not going to spend the money on him that he wanted.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Actually, I'm going to say that Williams was pissed because he got franchised. The reason he didn't want to come back was because he felt the Packers were in the wrong limiting his options by franchising him when they clearly stated they wouldn't meet his demands during contract negotiations.

Once again, after the NFC Championship game, Williams said something along the lines of being open to a return to Green Bay (signing a new contract with the team), but realizing that any thing can happen in the business side of things in the NFL.

He was not and is not worth the amount he's getting. He produced fairly decent stats because KGB and Kampman took quite a bit of attention and let's not forget having a stout secondary.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Williams value has to be more than just a pass rusher. Especially in the playoffs last year, he was outstanding at getting penetration and forcing the RB out side, at times even tackling the RB for a loss.

Williams won one on one match-ups, and considering this past year's lack of that his value was important.

I agree with the overpaying part, he deserved good money, but the contract he got was a lot bigger than he deserved.

The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.

MassPackersFan
Member

15 years ago

#20

Well that's the entire purpose of franchising a player - to limit their offers from other teams. It's kind of silly that players keep getting mad about it. Look at New England and Asante Samuel. They clearly weren't going to match the high offers in 2008 after franchising him in '07.

The thing is, Samuel is one of the best CB's in the league when it comes to zone defenses. Hard to say the same thing about C. Williams at DT, as much as I liked the guy. He was definitely demanding far more than he was worth.

I also don't think releasing Corey Williams had anything to do with "relying on a 1st round bust" to replace him. There were plenty of other DT's on the roster, and I assumed it was common knowledge even among those OUTSIDE of the organization that Harrell is a project. Nobody thought he would suddenly emerge in '08 after his '07 injury/surgery history.

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packerfanoutwest (2h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (4h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

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bboystyle (4h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (4h) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (4h) : yes due to tie breaker

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Zero2Cool (4h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (4h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

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bboystyle (6h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

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Zero2Cool (7h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

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Mucky Tundra (8h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

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Zero2Cool (9h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (9h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

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beast (11h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

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beast (11h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

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Zero2Cool (11h) : I literally just said it.

packerfanoutwest (11h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

Zero2Cool (11h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.

Zero2Cool (11h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.

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