Would you trade for Jimmy Graham?· Page 24

sschind
Senior Member

10 years ago

Yep...competitive. It took frigid temps that SF clearly wasn't used to to even the playing field for us.

So, we can almost beat SF, but then there's...SEATTLE who is better.

Graham helps us so much. Just a stud TE. We need studs to compete or are you going to trust Dom Capers is going to construct plans to stop SF and SEA? Now, that is funny or sad.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

So the 49ers get to use the weather as an excuse but we simply suck is that it? Maybe we are closer than you think.

Its pretty much impossible to be the BEST team in the league every single year. The good thing is that there is no guarantee the the BEST team will win it all every year. That is why being close to the best every year may be more important than blowing it all for a chance to be the BEST for a year or two and sucking for several years in between.

You don't think we are close to the best so you make your arguments (trade for Graham, ditch Ted.) That is where most of us would disagree. We think we are closer to the best than you do. We don't see the need for such drastic measures. We look at the past as things that have happened before and have very little to no bearing on what will or might happen in the future. You look at the past and think since it has happened before it will most likely happen again. We look at changes Ted Thompson has made and we are optimistic you look at the changes Ted has made and automatically write them off as failures because Ted is the one who made them and some of his changes in the past have failed.

I honestly don't know if I could be a fan if I had your attitude. I would have to have some sort of positive outlook or what would be the point. If I had to face the season thinking "oh my God here we go again what a painful thing this is going to be to watch again this year" I don't think I would waste my time. My love for the team and the history might not be enough to carry me through.

I do understand that you are trying to be objective but in your attempt to not be a homer I think you may be going a little to far in the other direction.

sschind
Senior Member

10 years ago

#232

No proven option hmmmmmmm, If I recall we have a guy that played alot the past few years including a guy that we wona Super Bowl with, but I guess he is unproven as you say.

Originally Posted by: dhazer

I don't get that argument at all. Just because we happened to win a SB with this guy as our starter doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to replace him.

Every single team that wins the SB has a starter or two that they would replace if they could get a better guy.

I'm not saying trade for JG but to say we won a SB with this guy so he is good enough just doesn't make sense.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#233

So the 49ers get to use the weather as an excuse but we simply suck is that it? Maybe we are closer than you think.

Its pretty much impossible to be the BEST team in the league every single year. The good thing is that there is no guarantee the the BEST team will win it all every year. That is why being close to the best every year may be more important than blowing it all for a chance to be the BEST for a year or two and sucking for several years in between.

You don't think we are close to the best so you make your arguments (trade for Graham, ditch Ted.) That is where most of us would disagree. We think we are closer to the best than you do. We don't see the need for such drastic measures. We look at the past as things that have happened before and have very little to no bearing on what will or might happen in the future. You look at the past and think since it has happened before it will most likely happen again. We look at changes Ted Thompson has made and we are optimistic you look at the changes Ted has made and automatically write them off as failures because Ted is the one who made them and some of his changes in the past have failed.

I honestly don't know if I could be a fan if I had your attitude. I would have to have some sort of positive outlook or what would be the point. If I had to face the season thinking "oh my God here we go again what a painful thing this is going to be to watch again this year" I don't think I would waste my time. My love for the team and the history might not be enough to carry me through.

I do understand that you are trying to be objective but in your attempt to not be a homer I think you may be going a little to far in the other direction.

Originally Posted by: sschind

"History repeats itself."..."Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."..."That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."... "There's nothing new under the sun." This may be one reason there's such a disconnect. The NFL is cyclical as life is.

I said earlier that my fandom is not as fun as it once was once I incorporated objectivity into it. Most of you want to remain objectivity free. There is no question me not drinking the kool aid/being a homer is going to conflict with those who are. It doesn't mean I'm not as big a fan as you, it means I see things very differently. Clearly, most of you don't celebrate diversity. I knew when I started here it would probably get to this point. Yes, close minded....and that's fine, I guess. Most of you love being part of the Packer way and are happy in that world of what Ted does must be right only until it isn't. I get it. I come across as a jerk a guy who is crazy superior etc...all labels you affix to me because I'm DIFFERENT not any of those things you say I am...it's just how you process and justify in your mind the things I say because they are so foreign to your way of thinking. The flat earth society sure didn't like anyone telling them the earth was round. Yes, that does go both ways. I don't claim that I'm always right...only that I believe the things I type and work hard to make my case. The shots taken at me don't bother me because I realize what they're coming out of.

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with me. I don't want to make all of you so uncomfortable and threatened. That bothers me. I would choose not to be here if I knew ALL of you were so affected and that it really was "hurting you" having your ideas about your favorite football team questioned and turned upside down.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#234

So the 49ers get to use the weather as an excuse but we simply suck is that it? Maybe we are closer than you think.

Its pretty much impossible to be the BEST team in the league every single year. The good thing is that there is no guarantee the the BEST team will win it all every year. That is why being close to the best every year may be more important than blowing it all for a chance to be the BEST for a year or two and sucking for several years in between.

You don't think we are close to the best so you make your arguments (trade for Graham, ditch Ted.) That is where most of us would disagree. We think we are closer to the best than you do. We don't see the need for such drastic measures. We look at the past as things that have happened before and have very little to no bearing on what will or might happen in the future. You look at the past and think since it has happened before it will most likely happen again. We look at changes Ted Thompson has made and we are optimistic you look at the changes Ted has made and automatically write them off as failures because Ted is the one who made them and some of his changes in the past have failed.

I honestly don't know if I could be a fan if I had your attitude. I would have to have some sort of positive outlook or what would be the point. If I had to face the season thinking "oh my God here we go again what a painful thing this is going to be to watch again this year" I don't think I would waste my time. My love for the team and the history might not be enough to carry me through.

I do understand that you are trying to be objective but in your attempt to not be a homer I think you may be going a little to far in the other direction.

Originally Posted by: sschind

Yes, the Niners get weather as an excuse. Would you rather play the Saints in their Dome or at Lambeau in January? Are the Saints anything outside of their dome? We were given a HUGE advantage with the weather. Don't tell me you weren't tickled the Niners were coming to play in the frigid temps and that you didn't think it was a huge psychological advantage. I sure did. I thought we might win due to it...not because we were better, but because it set up well for us... we still lost. Yes, all the injuries and Micah not pulling that one down...so close. Just not good enough. Settling for 3 instead of the TD killed us...red zone issues...all year. A lot to do with why I want Jimmy. Having him vs. not could've very well been the difference in that game. 7 instead of 3 and we have a much better shot at hanging on for the win. Close is really far
a lot of the time. Close ain't close enough. Most are content with close...the illusion is we're right there. Seattle is better. Being close to SF is no longer all that important now. There are bigger dragons to try and slay and we can't beat the penultimate one in the NFC.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#235

Graham's camp believes the deadline for an appeal is Monday 4 ET and profootballtalk.com believes this will all be over by then one way or the other.

That is 24 hours from now, to the minute, on my laptop screen. One more day. Very curious to see what happens tomorrow.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

sschind
Senior Member

10 years ago

#236

"History repeats itself."..."Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."..."That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."... "There's nothing new under the sun." This may be one reason there's such a disconnect. The NFL is cyclical as life is.

I said earlier that my fandom is not as fun as it once was once I incorporated objectivity into it. Most of you want to remain objectivity free. There is no question me not drinking the kool aid/being a homer is going to conflict with those who are. It doesn't mean I'm not as big a fan as you, it means I see things very differently. Clearly, most of you don't celebrate diversity. I knew when I started here it would probably get to this point. Yes, close minded....and that's fine, I guess. Most of you love being part of the Packer way and are happy in that world of what Ted does must be right only until it isn't. I get it. I come across as a jerk a guy who is crazy superior etc...all labels you affix to me because I'm DIFFERENT not any of those things you say I am...it's just how you process and justify in your mind the things I say because they are so foreign to your way of thinking. The flat earth society sure didn't like anyone telling them the earth was round. Yes, that does go both ways. I don't claim that I'm always right...only that I believe the things I type and work hard to make my case. The shots taken at me don't bother me because I realize what they're coming out of.

You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes with me. I don't want to make all of you so uncomfortable and threatened. That bothers me. I would choose not to be here if I knew ALL of you were so affected and that it really was "hurting you" having your ideas about your favorite football team questioned and turned upside down.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

Cyclical does not mean that just because something happened in the past means it WILL happen again. Cyclical means that things that happen in the past have a tendency to happen again if no one pays any attention to it. There is a difference.

For the record I do not think I ever called you a jerk or said you were acting all superior so I hope you are using YOU in a generic sense. I do think your posts are a bit off the wall sometimes and quite frankly a bit ridiculous because I don't agree with you but that doesn't mean I think you are less of a fan. We all want what is best for the team we just don't agree what that is. As far as knowing what is going on behind the scenes with you you are right, I have no idea. None of us do and we wouldn't unless you decided to share that. In all likelihood however none of us really care. You say things we don't agree with and we post counter arguments. It is nothing more than that for most of us. Some may go over the top in their responses but we all do on occasion. I think you are giving yourself a little too much credit in saying you make us feel uncomfortable. As for people leaving this site because of you. or any other poster for that matter, that is just childish. If I left every site I was on because of one member that I didn't agree with or didn't like I probably wouldn't be on any sites and if I were those sites would probably be rather boring.

I for one don't mind the banter.

DarkaneRules
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#237

I am also curious how it pans out. It will be quite a spectacle one way or another. He is one of the best players in the league at any position and entering the prime of his career. He should be desiring as much money as he can get.

Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance

steveishere
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#238

I don't get that argument at all. Just because we happened to win a SB with this guy as our starter doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking to replace him.

Every single team that wins the SB has a starter or two that they would replace if they could get a better guy.

I'm not saying trade for JG but to say we won a SB with this guy so he is good enough just doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by: sschind

I agree that that's not a good argument or we should just bring back Zombo. I've never been much of a fan of Quarless either but he did finish the season pretty strong last year. I'm fine going into next year with him as the starter. If Bostic or one of the new guys is good enough to beat him out for the spot then I'll feel pretty good about whoever that is.

uffda udfa
Veteran Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#239

Cyclical does not mean that just because something happened in the past means it WILL happen again. Cyclical means that things that happen in the past have a tendency to happen again if no one pays any attention to it. There is a difference.

For the record I do not think I ever called you a jerk or said you were acting all superior so I hope you are using YOU in a generic sense. I do think your posts are a bit off the wall sometimes and quite frankly a bit ridiculous because I don't agree with you but that doesn't mean I think you are less of a fan. We all want what is best for the team we just don't agree what that is. As far as knowing what is going on behind the scenes with you you are right, I have no idea. None of us do and we wouldn't unless you decided to share that. In all likelihood however none of us really care. You say things we don't agree with and we post counter arguments. It is nothing more than that for most of us. Some may go over the top in their responses but we all do on occasion. I think you are giving yourself a little too much credit in saying you make us feel uncomfortable. As for people leaving this site because of you. or any other poster for that matter, that is just childish. If I left every site I was on because of one member that I didn't agree with or didn't like I probably wouldn't be on any sites and if I were those sites would probably be rather boring.

I for one don't mind the banter.

Originally Posted by: sschind

I don't think everyone is anything here at this board. IE: not everyone is a homer. I enjoy you as a fellow poster and quite a few others. Some I don't enjoy all that much but every single poster brings something to this forum. I don't think I threaten all of you or maybe even most of you but I certainly threaten some. That group happens to be quite vocal...the greater the perceived threat the stronger the lashing out.

As for what I'm going through, it's nothing major....I contacted Kevin a couple of days ago regarding some things that I'm sensitive to. I certainly don't want to be a driving force for someone to leave here, and I really shouldn't be as there's no reason for it. Should I stop busting on certain posters when they make crazy statements? No. In the same way, you won't stop busting on me when you think I've made crazy statements.

I couldn't stress enough this is entertainment. It should be taken as such... to allow me, or anyone, run someone off when that is not my aim is sad. If someone was gunning for trying to get people to quit here I think that person should be dealt with. That is not what I want. I want someone to explain to me why Davante Adams is better than Sterling or why Jarrett Boykin is as good as Alshon Jeffery. I care more about why you say something vs. the fact you just said it. We should be able to ask questions. Some make statements and expect them to go unchallenged. I certainly have had mine challenged and that's great fun. If it isn't fun for you to back up what you type here then I think you shouldn't be typing in the first place. That is how I see it. You may not.

I'm going to get all riled up when Graham isn't extended tomorrow. 8-[

EDIT: One thing that tires me out like my posts do to some is continually reading "No TE is worth two 1st round picks" Why? It is just accepted when someone writes something like that. I would say most agree with that sentiment...but...why? I've gone to great lengths to show it really isn't crazy at all but it just keeps coming back to... it isn't worth it and that's crazy. Why? I guess because you said so is what I'm to accept. I have yet to see anyone actually debunk the idea that our odds of getting a Jimmy Graham type with a 1st rounder as being less than 10%. Too bad...it's just dumb because someone says it's dumb without explanation. I don't know, if you really wanted to, how you couldn't see how that looks to me. I research and present facts, which ultimately get ridiculed which is funny to me, but the reply back is one line about how dumb that is. No research no logic no nothing other than...that's dumb. You're dumb. You think you're superior. et al. It is fun to engage with fellow fans...few here engage...many insult mock label etc. I wish there were more "steveishere", "sschind" type of posters for the things I enjoy on a forum. The homers want homers like them. I want objective well versed posters to read who make compelling cases for their beliefs...I know, I do none of that and am irrelevant a nobody a joke etc...but that is who I wish to read.

Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."

sschind
Senior Member

10 years ago

#240

I don't think everyone is anything here at this board. IE: not everyone is a homer. I enjoy you as a fellow poster and quite a few others. Some I don't enjoy all that much but every single poster brings something to this forum. I don't think I threaten all of you or maybe even most of you but I certainly threaten some. That group happens to be quite vocal...the greater the perceived threat the stronger the lashing out.

As for what I'm going through, it's nothing major....I contacted Kevin a couple of days ago regarding some things that I'm sensitive to. I certainly don't want to be a driving force for someone to leave here, and I really shouldn't be as there's no reason for it. Should I stop busting on certain posters when they make crazy statements? No. In the same way, you won't stop busting on me when you think I've made crazy statements.

I couldn't stress enough this is entertainment. It should be taken as such... to allow me, or anyone, run someone off when that is not my aim is sad. If someone was gunning for trying to get people to quit here I think that person should be dealt with. That is not what I want. I want someone to explain to me why Davante Adams is better than Sterling or why Jarrett Boykin is as good as Alshon Jeffery. I care more about why you say something vs. the fact you just said it. We should be able to ask questions. Some make statements and expect them to go unchallenged. I certainly have had mine challenged and that's great fun. If it isn't fun for you to back up what you type here then I think you shouldn't be typing in the first place. That is how I see it. You may not.

I'm going to get all riled up when Graham isn't extended tomorrow. 8-[

EDIT: One thing that tires me out like my posts do to some is continually reading "No TE is worth two 1st round picks" Why? It is just accepted when someone writes something like that. I would say most agree with that sentiment...but...why? I've gone to great lengths to show it really isn't crazy at all but it just keeps coming back to... it isn't worth it and that's crazy. Why? I guess because you said so is what I'm to accept. I have yet to see anyone actually debunk the idea that our odds of getting a Jimmy Graham type with a 1st rounder as being less than 10%. Too bad...it's just dumb because someone says it's dumb without explanation. I don't know, if you really wanted to, how you couldn't see how that looks to me. I research and present facts, which ultimately get ridiculed which is funny to me, but the reply back is one line about how dumb that is. No research no logic no nothing other than...that's dumb. You're dumb. You think you're superior. et al. It is fun to engage with fellow fans...few here engage...many insult mock label etc. I wish there were more "steveishere", "sschind" type of posters for the things I enjoy on a forum. The homers want homers like them. I want objective well versed posters to read who make compelling cases for their beliefs...I know, I do none of that and am irrelevant a nobody a joke etc...but that is who I wish to read.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa

I do think that a lot of us have explained why we don't think the trade would be a good idea just like you have explained why you think it would be.

I don't want to speak for others but I'll try to sum it up in a nutshell (word of warning to guys like dexter, sometimes I have pretty big nuts and big nuts have big shells so you might want to quit reading now before you get bored)

1) No TE is worth 2 #1 draft picks- I wouldn't say never but generally I would agree with this statement especially when ...

2) not only would that TE cost 2 #1's but likely 10 million dollars or more per season and quite likely another star player (Cobb?) because we couldn't afford to keep him whom we would then need to replace. Or when said TE...

3) would likely not play as prominent a role in the Packers offense as he does in his current offense thus reducing his numbers to a somewhat less than incredible level which leads us to the fact that ...

4) Most of us agree that he would be a huge upgrade at TE but we do not agree that even a huge upgrade at TE would translate into as huge of an upgrade overall as to be worth the cost it would take to get him which brings us back to #1 being no TE is worth 2 #1 draft picks. Cyclical and all that.

Add to it the fact that some of us are more concerned with our defense than our offense and we feel that if such a big outlay of draft picks, salary and potential loss of star players is going to happen it should be to acquire someone for our defense. I use the term US in a generic sense meaning those of us against you, not in the sense that I necessarily agree with this line of thinking.

Now those are the facts as I think most of us see them. Or maybe those are our opinions as most of us see them but either way, this is why we don't think trading for Graham is worth it. Perhaps a few have another agenda or maybe they have an ax to grind with you but I think they are laid out fairly obviously and I think they have been laid out fairly obviously in several of our prior posts. I do think you laid out your facts, or your opinions, rather obviously as well. I think most of us know exactly why you want to trade for Graham we just don't agree, but for all of us I don't think any of us can say we don't know why the other guy objects. Its out there. It may not be the truth but it is out there.

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