Sorry Z2C, but I am unable to view the text i wish to edit.

My point is Grahams numbers were incredibly skewed as NO was constantly putting the ball up for Graham last season. That renders this one stat the whole argument is based upon somewhat moot.

Without 144 targets, there is nm? way Graham approaches 16 TDs. How many TDs could we expect Graham to actually get in our system

Attach screenshot of what you're seeing please. I dislike Apple so I have no Apple products, but a screen shot will help me inform the developer how to fix your booboo.

Also, can you try the same thing on Chrome?

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Actually, Finley was the 3rd worst that year with a 12.88% drop rate, 85 targets, 70 catchable, dropped 9.😆

I will try. Yeah, it is really bad. Even if I attempt to place my curser within a body of text to change something in an original post, i am unable. For instance, I am unable to place the curser now to change that lower case i in previous sentence to a cap...

If I attempt to place curser to begin an edit at the end of a post, the entire body text disappears, and a giant curser shows flashing, at an arbitrary location within the text.

My posts are starting to look pretty freaking funny. I swear I'm not drinking...!

How can you design a site that only works on left brainer equipment? 😉

Fact is, we'd only need him for one year anyway.

I believe at least one of these young guys will step up and be a player for us, but they'll need a year of seasoning first. Meanwhile, Quarless is adequate and Bostick could very well step up.

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You're right, nothing does. And in no way have I insinuated you couldnt. But if we give up a first round pick and then want to move back into the first round, we have to give away the value of a first round pick. It's an opportunity cost.




When Clay was an unknown commodity, at the time of the trade, I thought it was a risk but the expected return, especially if Clay became a premiere pass rushing talent, would more than pay off. There was also very little financial risk in that trade: it was a 5 year contract maxing out at just over $13M total. I was also giddy to get a pass rusher because that's always been my favorite role on a team.



Yes, it really is that simple. Congrats, you finally got there. Here's a gold star.



You've annointed him in to the Hall of Fame too early. If he keeps up this production for an extended career, yes he will go. But he could suffer a career ending injury, or an injury that he, while continuing to play, never fully recovers from. That happens in the NFL. Players also drop off some times. Maybe they were just looking to get paid and once they do they don't care. Some people might lose the hunger they initially had. Sometimes a player changes teams and the team chemistry or the system just don't quite click. How many marquee free agents have we seen go to another team and flop? Graham will, in all likelihood, continue on with very high production in New Orleans or elsewhere, should he move. That is not a guarantee though.



No, I didn't ignore it. But frankly, I'm more interested in assessing TT's performance on first rounders since he is the GM that would be presuambly using or not using these 1st round picks. 2 players in 10. 20% chance per Ted Thompson pick to get a player as good or better than Graham. That would put the odds of getting a Jimmy Graham calibre player with at least one of the two first round picks at 36% (inverse of not getting Jimmy Graham with both 1-(.8)*(.8)). There's a third, Jordy Nelson, who we used the 1st round pick to trade back and get, that's just a tier below. I'd also like to reiterate if it was not made clear, but a lot of those picks that have not panned out, or should I say have not panned out yet (let's judge Sherrod, Perry and Bulaga on how they come back), have been the victims of injuries. It's been unfortunate for us that we haven't been able to keep a first round pick healthy for the last 4 years or so. But that happens in football and that could happen to anyone we bring in, from a draft pick to Jimmy Graham.

You've also set up this false dichotomy whereby the 1st round pick has to be as good as Jimmy Graham or it isn't worth it. If you get two players that are at Jordy Nelson's level, while neither is as good as Jimmy Graham, that's much better position to be in. I wouldn't trade two Jordy Nelson's for one Jimmy Graham and that's not even close. So you work your way down and there's some value of player where you break even from having two at value x just as much as you value having one Jimmy Graham.

You then have to take into account that two first round draft picks will be on a combined annual salary of somewhere between 3-4M between the two of them and that gives you 4 years of anywhere from 6-9M additional cap space to work with relative to signing Graham to extend your own key pieces or go out and put towards a free agent at a position of need.

That's where the math, for most of us, points out to Jimmy Graham being too expensive at a top dollar contract PLUS two first round picks.

But the last line really says it all for me, that either we've failed to convey or you've failed to understand (or some combination of both) the fact that everyone who is against this is against it because we feel the resources could be allocated elsewhere to yield a higher return.

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Positive effect on offense is negligible. Negative effect on defense is detrimental. Plus, losing ability to add a top talent in R1 for two years, along with the gigantic cap figure of $10M...

Finley's best year he had 85 targets and was split out as a WR as Graham would if he were introduced to our system. That is 59% of the targets that Graham had last season with NO.

59% of 16 TDs is 9.44 TDs. We should want to give up that much of our future for that?

Cherry picking at it's finest....should have some big baskets full by now. How many times do I need to say the cap is projected to be over 150 million in 2 seasons? Next year it's set for another 10 million jump. We have 13.6 availabe right now. The cap isn't our enemy and wouldn't be if we signed Graham especially with some of those guys on that list potentially leaving.

The words being put in my mouth are also of note. False dichotomy? I would have no issue if we got two very good players in Round 1 over the next two years...that would be fine. I would prefer a Hall of Famer and make no mistake that's where this guy is heading barring injury...and injury could happen to anyone: See Packers. We have a better chance of drafting back to back injury guys like a Sherrod and Harrell than we do of a Jimmy Graham. You make this deal you have a guaranteed star joining your team. The fact that Richard Rodgers got some pub during OTA's is used as a reason to not do this is one of my favorite things I've ever read on any Packers forum. That is like a Viking fan saying a few years back... Hey, if Green Bay has to franchise Rodgers in lieu of an extension, we shouldn't trade two firsts to the Packers because we drafted Ponder and Greg Jennings said some glowing things about him during TC. Yes, different positions that don't impact the game the same but same mindset that makes no sense.

Quarless looks very unnatural catching the football...is not anywhere the blocker many have built him up to be because he's nothing in the passing game he must be a great blocker. The guy had 15 bad runs per JSO last year. 3 drops in 34 attempts which would be his best season ever, I believe, as I've looked at his drop rate before and it's awful. The stat being used against Jimmy is for ONE season not his career drop rate, but, of course, the person who posted it is unaware that Graham had a wrist injury for part of that season that very well may have affected his ability to catch the football. Let's not post his career drop rate, which is found earlier in this thread, let's focus on one year when we don't really look any deeper but can't wait to rush over with an Aha! moment to tell me how dumb this is. The fact that anyone is saying we're good at TE without Graham is all that really needs to be said. We aren't good at tight end. We now have a JAG backup slated to be our starter, but he's so non descript (and injured, too) that there's talk we may start a 3rd round comp pick from Cal. Nevermind that the guy we used to trot out was a guy D. coord's had to prepare for and he changed the way teams played us...that's surely not important and won't affect our Graham equivalent (Jordy Nelson). Finley's attention surely didn't help Jordy Randall or anyone else. Removing him from the equation will have no impact at all because we have Andrew Quarless. Andrew freaking Quarless. I'm surprised we spent a 3rd on a TE when we had a guy like Andrew Quarless ready to take the reins. Why would they have done such a thing with a star like AQ already on the roster?

Graham would get as many balls here as he did in New Orleans if he was as productive when we threw it to him. Given our other complementary weapons he'd be even more of a threat here than he is there where he's the focal point of opposing D's.

The cap can accommodate Jimmy just fine and Randall and Jordy also. We can live without the next Hawk, Harrell, Perry, Sherrod, Bulaga, Datone Jones, etc for the right to land one of the most explosive TE's to ever lacem up but I know...we're good at TE, just like ILB and S, too.

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I see absolutely no reason at all to belive that's true. Finley was producing more yards/target than Graham did last year and was nowhere near on pace for 150 targets. Before Rodgers and Cobb got hurt Jordy was on track for a 1600 yard season and wasn't on pace for even that many targets. We don't throw the ball nearly 650 times a year and the ball is going to be shared around with Jordy/Cobb and now Lacy too. That's not even accounting for the fact that Rodgers routinely targets 8-10 players a game not just 3 or 4.

We've got plenty of offensive weapons and will undoubtedly have a top offense next year, it's a waste to blow 10m+ and two 1st round picks on another receiver - diminishing returns and whatnot. If we were lacking for offense then maybe it would be worth it but we aren't so it isn't. Who we have at TE is pretty much irrelevant. Graham brings nothing to the table besides catching passes so that's what he is, a receiver and we don't need another receiver to be successful.