Why not trade away from next year to get the help we need this year?· Page 8

wpr
Preferred Member

10 years ago

That's dream world material. Google-eyed NFC North Division Champ illusions…. Our division sucked so bad that they are thinking of changing the rules for playoff seeding and whether or not division champs are automatic qualifiers.

Again, we did not beat one team with a winning record last year, and we ranked 31st in the NFL on defense. Until we get a defense other teams have to contend with, we will remain pretenders.

Who here did not see that defense wins championships this past season? The last two times we won the SB we had phenomenal defenses, loaded with playmakers. That just simply is not the case today.

What is more negative? Looking at our true standing in this league, or pretending everything is alright just because we have Aaron Rodgers?

We had a healthy Aaron Rodgers in both 2011 and in 2012, and we didn't finish the job because we had the very same issues affecting our play on defense. We are talking 3 years later about the exact same needs. SSALY. Three years running.

And, this horse shit about trading a future pick being akin to throwing salary on a lottery ticket. Puhleeeease! That is the kind of garbage that keeps people from taking any chances.

Did SEA not take any chances? WOW. Look what they just did.

Every draft choice includes a fair amount of risk. I'm simply open to Ted possibly trading away next year's R1 if he sees a player available that he deems worthy of such a move. That would have to be a pretty good player, right? That same player will still be on the roster next season, right? Well, what the hell's the problem? If we get 2 really good players into our system this year from R1 instead of 1, that extra player will have a full year of NFL experience under his belt by 2015.

Am I expecting him to do so? Hell no. But, if he did, I would welcome the move. I'd rather bolster a depleted defense with more top picks this year than wait. That's all.

Originally Posted by: play2win

Be content for GB to merely make the playoffs. After all, they could get lucky and every other team in the playoffs have all their QBs and starting lines (Both OL and DL) go down with injuries.

Ignore the fact the Aaron all by himself is capable of winning 8-9 games.

Never ever compare GB to the success other teams have for acquiring talent. Only compare GB to the problems other teams have had in getting talent. After all Uncle Teddy and Company can't possibly be any better at evaluating talent than other GMs. Unless of course it is the mighty and all powerful UDFAs that everyone craves.

And whatever you do, don't suggest anything that will bring players to GB other than through the draft, typically 6th and 7th rounders. 👅

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#72

You know, you just may be right on this.
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Originally Posted by: yooperfan

hahahaha That puts me two ahead of a lot of people in here.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

DakotaT
Select Member

10 years ago

#73

What a bunch of negativist CRAP! The Packers are FAR from being in/winning the Super Bowl? Come On!

First of all, if things fell right, it's entirely possible we could go all the way with pure crap on defense and with a shaky O-Line - Aaron Rodgers is that good.

Secondly, we will be infinitely better on defense just by getting rid of Raji and Pickett. In addition, however, all the negative crap notwithstanding, we will be greatly improved also by having back all those injured players for a full season - even minus an average amount of injuries next season.

We lost by 3 lousy points to arguably one of the top three teams in the NFL - having Rodgers back, yes, but still pretty crippled by injuries. I really don't see any reason we can't beat Seattle either.

And all of that is saying nothing about additions - hopefully a good draft, hopefully Thompson departing just a little bit from his ways and picking up a quality Safety and/or LB.

Hell No, we aren't far from Super Bowl quality. With just equal luck with injuries and in other areas, we are right there with the best right now.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

Why are you always the one legged man in an ass kicking contest? Jesus Christ, I bet you use to be a Favre apologist too. That horrible Rams playoff loss was the receivers' fault, yadadadada. You are my favorite tick turd for good reason...Buckeye doesn't want the job anymore.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#74

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

hahahaha Back when I was in the real estate business, I knew this guy - 78 years old at the time, a former Philippine Scout who survived the Bataan Death March, but lost a leg from his wounds. I saw him leave his crutches in the car and hop about 100 yards over rough ground looking at a property, faster than most people could walk it. He'd be my candidate for that ass kicking contest - either with or without the crutches. He's 96 now and still kickin'.

Hell Yeah I am a Favre apologist - the greatest player, not just QB in the history of the NFL - until Aaron Rodgers, the current best player, surpasses Favre in career greatness. We are truly blessed to have them both as Packers, and I'll kick the ass of anybody who says different - verbally, of course - just like I always kick your ass, Dakota - verbally, of course.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

Mucky Tundra
Honored Member

10 years ago

#75

Atlanta traded their 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks in 2011 and their 2012 1st and 4th rounders to get Julio Jones.

Got bounced in the wild card in 2011, lost in the NFC title game in 2012 and 2013...well, they're drafting at the #6 spot this year.

“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”

"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers

mi_keys
Senior Member

10 years ago

#76

Again, we did not beat one team with a winning record last year, and we ranked 31st in the NFL on defense. Until we get a defense other teams have to contend with, we will remain pretenders.

Originally Posted by: play2win

We were 25th in yards and 24th in points.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2013&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&qualified=false

And in 2013, the #17 Defense (ranked even lower than the feeble Packers, by the way) beat the #3 Defense for the Super Bowl title. So evidently, Defense doesn't always win. Sorry.

But you were right in 2012. The #27 D beat the #31 D for the title. Clearly, Defense wins championships based on this! What's that? You mean 2 teams ranked in the worst 6 defensive teams in the league played in the Super Bowl??? Heresy!

In 2011 Super Bowl, the Packers won with the #5 D!!! Of course the Steelers lost and their D was ranked... #2.

What's this mean? Absolutely nothing.

The 2013 Houston Texans had the #7 ranked defense! And won 2 games.

In 2013, the #6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, & 18 teams did not make the playoffs. The #19 team did and made it all the way to the Super Bowl.

Again? Nothing.

Seattle was the first team to win the Super Bowl in the last 10 years without a prototypical Franchise QB. Does that mean that the Patriots, Broncos, Saints, Steelers, Packers are all going to drop their studs and go with the new trend of young, short and average at QB? I doubt it, but I might be wrong.

Yes, the D needs to get better. But not at the cost of the future.

QCHuskerFan wrote:

I'm not going to spend the time right now to pull up the statistics on defense winning titles. This was discussed at length on the forum some years ago and members went back through every single season from 1967 through to the (at the time) present. Defense was the better indicator for success and overwhelmingly so.

I will say, you are focused on yards, which is the wrong statistic. Points win games. Points are what matter. Not surprisingly, points paint a much better picture of a defense's strength and how successful teams have been. By the way, your #7 Texans were #24 in points. Real power house that is.

Also, the bit about "prototypical franchise quarterbacks" is a farce. If we go back to 2000, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger (twice), Eli Manning (twice), Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson have all been a part of Super Bowl winning teams.

Dilfer and Johnson are shit; Flacco and Eli Manning are average. Roethlisberger set the record for worst QB rating (22.6) in a Super Bowl when he won "his" first (though sexy Rexy now holds that distinction with his 7.1) and was shit for the first 58 minutes of "his" second win. He's one of the most overrated QBs of all time thanks to his two rings. He's good, but he doesn't touch the status of the elite quarterbacks; and it's quite rich that you bring up the Steelers when their titles were won largely on the back of their defenses. Russell Wilson is fine. If those are your "prototypical franchise quarterbacks" then half the league has one.

And even when we look at the elite quarterbacks, they often had elite defenses accompany them when they won Super Bowls. Brady's 2001, 2003 and 2004 Pats had the 6th, 1st and 2nd ranked scoring defenses. Rodgers' Packers has the 2nd scoring defense.

The QB may be the most important single position in the game, but the defense is still the more important side of the ball. It's time we fixed ours.

Born and bred a cheesehead

DakotaT
Select Member

10 years ago

#77

Originally Posted by: Mucky Tundra

Just rewatched the Atlanta game where Rodgers burned Atlanta down in 2010. My absolute favorite Packer game. We have never played at that level since and we absolutely squashed the hopes of that team and Matty Choke.

steveishere
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#78

One thing I will so though is this will probably end up being one of the deepest draft classes in recent history because of the record number of underclassmen who have declared. The problem though is a lot of those guys won't be first round pick material because they came out too early. This is the reason I would be fine with seeing some trade backs this year assuming the board is saturated with talent at our picks. There is a lot of talent that's going to be sitting there in those mid rounds that would have taken higher picks to get next year.

I would probably be fine moving some mid round picks from next year to get some of those guys though I still have a hard time thinking there's going to be 2nd/3rd rounders on the board worth a 1st from next year. Would have to be a damn sure thing. It just doesn't really seem to me like when teams have traded future 1st round picks it's worked out that well.

play2win
Senior Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#79

From the Seahawks' depth chart online, here is their starting D's roster's draft position/year.

Bryant - #121 2008
McDaniel - undrafted FA 2006
Mebane - #85 2007
Clemons - undrafted FA 2003
Irvin - #15 2012
Wagner - #47 2012
Smith - #242 2012
Sherman - #154 2011
Maxwell - #173 2011
Chancellor - #133 2010
Thomas - #14 2010

Every starter behind their DL is from their last 4 draft classes, and only 2/11ths of their defense is from the 1st RD. So why must the Packers trade up into Rd 1 to get a top-notch defense?

Originally Posted by: musccy

Dude, you are talking about a 3-4 year window of team building to make SEA the winner it was last season. Is that how long you want to wait, till Rodgers has maybe one or two years left? Not me.

The problem we face is we are currently poised offensively, and incredibly deficient defensively. We just need to add the best playmakers we can to turn that around and be a very, very solid team. I would prefer we did that this offseason, as opposed to stretching it out over however many years, by making some bold moves with draft day trades and FA signings or player trades to add the right players. I don't mind pushing all the chips in at this point. It could be really good for this team.

play2win
Senior Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#80

Originally Posted by: steveishere

steve, the shotgun approach could work this draft, given it seems loaded with talent. Ted would have to really hit. I thought last year's draft was quite possibly his best ever at the time. Out of the 11 players drafted last year, we received significant contributions from 3: Lacy, Bakhtiari and Hyde.

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packerfanoutwest (2m) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

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Mucky Tundra (11h) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (11h) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (11h) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (12h) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (12h) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (15h) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (15h) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (15h) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (18h) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (18h) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (18h) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (18h) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (18h) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (18h) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (18h) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (18h) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (19h) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (20h) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (20h) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (20h) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (20h) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (20h) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (20h) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (21h) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (21h) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (21h) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (21h) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (21h) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (22h) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (22h) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (22h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.

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