Packers going smaller faster on DL?· Page 6

beast
Select Member

10 years ago

As for Nerdman's idea of Richardson at OLB, I like that better than ILB. That makes more sense than turning DEs into OLBs. I just don't see that ability in Richardson to make it all worthwhile, though.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

Oh.. I might of taken Nerdman comment the wrong way... I thought he was making a joke.

After you said you "could beat anybody in this forum on the tennis court", I thought Nerdman was just saying he'd try Richardson at OLB before you [grin1]

Anyways 3-4 OLB are sort of like 4-3 DEs, and have to be more physical to deal with OTs, I'm not sure Richardson is big or physical enough for that.

While 3-4 ILB (depending on the role and scheme) get some protection with those big fatties in front of them and don't have to be as physical and can be more free flowing to the ball.

If it was a 4-3 scheme I would say OLB would be a better fit... but since 3-4 OLB have to be edge defenders I'm not sure that's true in this scheme.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#52

I didn't say Raji was dogging it... I think Raji has two mental speeds,

1) Aggressive attacking the ball
2) Watching

The probably is NTs and big DL are asked to play two gap which is aggressive and attacking the OL while clogging towards the ball... which Raji tries to but mentally struggles to do, and ends up trying to follow the ball, getting to high and watching too much. I think he'd be better if you could get him into a position of, don't watch, don't read just attack... but there isn't a role like that on the Packers team.

If you don't think Pickett has shown toughness with the Packers through out his career then ether you haven't watched him play or don't know what you're seeing, and I've already pointed out clearly you only get attack pass rush mode you don't understand the other things DL are asked to do.

Well most teams and scheme have them in the NFL and so I'll take the actions of the experts, they use it so they must think it's better overall.

Originally Posted by: beast

Whatever whatever whatever ....... you can be contrary all you want, but I'm pleased and satisfied that the Packers are moving in the right direction, getting rid of those two fat slugs and going with more mobile and athletic D-Linemen who can actually do something on their own and take the pressure off Matthews, the other LBs, and the DBs. If you don't approve, we'll just have to see if your negativity is proven right.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

DakotaT
Select Member

10 years ago

#53

Not that I don't enjoy watching people gang up on and beat down the evil dumbass from Texas, but 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's are not interchangeable players. One can either handle playing in space, turning his hips and running with the backs and tight ends or he cannot. We have yet to find our second OLB. Nick Perry is a 4-3 DE with more athleticism than Aaron Kampmann had, but is still playing out of position.

I'm tired of watching us plug round holes with square pegs. Shit has to stop.

Big Greasy WAS a great Packer, and now he is an aging Packer needing to be replaced. And Raji has just been a disappointment. Hopefully we move on from these two.

beast
Select Member

10 years ago

#54

you can be contrary all you want

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

thank you for your permission? Though I don't want to be contrary....

If you don't approve, we'll just have to see if your negativity is proven right.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

What negativity?

If your talking about you not understand the idea / concept of how NFL coaches are using the big men... changing won't prove or disprove that and you've basically said it doesn't make sense to you which means you don't understand that idea.

If you mean the switch will prove which is better, I'm not negative about that (though you seem to assume I am). I've already said I thought Capers more aggressive 3-4 system from 2009 to 2011 was better overall (just not right for the personal they had in 2011 and 2012)... but not with more pass rushing personal they can be right for it again.

Personally I think Capers 3-4 system which is more high risk (and hopefully high reward) is better (just like you) which the Packers ran from 2009 to 2011

Originally Posted by: beast

We just disagreed about weather two gapping works and is effective or not. NFL coaches think it's effective enough to usually ask one of the NT / DT to do it so they think it's works. And the traditional 3-4 defense ask three big guys to do it, which is basically what the Packers have been running more of the pass two years since they didn't have DL pass rushers.

They're probably going back to the former Capers system which usually has the NT do it full time and usually lets the 3-4 DE play one gap and pass rush but once in a while throws in two gap in to catch the OL off guard.

buckeyepackfan
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#55

Pulled this from news feed, saw no reason to start a new thread.

Interesting the guys listed here as top 5 OLB prospects.

http://lombardiave.com/2014/02/15/early-player-rankings-nfl-draft-top-five-outside-linebacker-prospects/

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!

steveishere
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#56

Not that I don't enjoy watching people gang up on and beat down the evil dumbass from Texas, but 4-3 DE's and 3-4 OLB's are not interchangeable players. One can either handle playing in space, turning his hips and running with the backs and tight ends or he cannot. We have yet to find our second OLB. Nick Perry is a 4-3 DE with more athleticism than Aaron Kampmann had, but is still playing out of position.

I'm tired of watching us plug round holes with square pegs. Shit has to stop.

Big Greasy WAS a great Packer, and now he is an aging Packer needing to be replaced. And Raji has just been a disappointment. Hopefully we move on from these two.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

Not all of them are but since there are not many 3-4 defenses in college most teams look to 4-3 DEs as their 3-4 OLBs. It's not some rare concept that only the Packers are trying it's that those are the guys in college that usually have the abilities and body type to play the OLB position in the NFL. Most college actual LBs simply aren't 250ish lbs and used to rushing off the edge against OTs.

Yerko
Senior Member

10 years ago

#57

Going smaller and faster on the defensive line doesn't automatically mean the Packers become weaker or more vulnerable. Clearly, the 3 big (300+ pounds) guys across the defensive line isn't working.

Pickett is fading away simply due to getting older. Raji no longer requires a double-team because its easy for one guy to block him. Jolly was coming off a 3-year layoff and did what he could, which was actually more impressive than the other two.

Then there are the smaller, quicker, more explosive guys on the team. Unfortunately, only one of the guys gives you a good idea of what the smaller-quicker defensive lineman bring to the table.

Daniels was by far, one of the best defensive linemen the Packers had lining up these season. When the Packers drafted him, everyone questioned his size to play in the 3-4. No more questions. If the Packers can find a few more guys like this, their defense will be in business. We will have to wait and see if Da'tone Jones and Jerel Worthy could be those kinds of players.

Looking forward to the draft, we are constantly seeing the names Ra'Shede Hageman and Louis Nix. Quite honestly, I hope the Packers do not draft Louis Nix. He is a Raji Jr. Ra'Shede Hageman has so much upside to his game and just looks like a monster on the field. He is over 300 pounds but he is 6'6". Having quicker, stronger and more explosive guys like him, Daniels and Da'tone Jones up front can allow for Capers to be more creative with his defense.

I'd take three Mike Daniels-like players over three big bodies that half-assedly clog the lanes. Clogging the lanes worked when the big boys required double teams. When they don't require double-teams, Dom's entire defense (and any 3-4) goes to crap.

Yerko
Senior Member

10 years ago

#58

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan

I honestly wish the Packers would go after one of these guys but I don't think they are going to give up on Nick Perry. I don't think they should be so quick to give up on him either but players 1-3 would make a huge difference on this team.

No more plugging round holes with square pegs, as DakotaT would say.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#59

Originally Posted by: Yerko

Overall, I like what you have to say and agree with most of it.

I'm pretty sure Daniels and Worthy are over 300, and Datone is about a bucket of KFC short of it. More importantly, though, these guys, with Boyd and Jolly in the rotation, will be head and shoulders better than what we've had starting the past couple of years. The appreciation for Pickett's effort over the years is nice, but calling him great like somebody did above? Come on. great is Reggie White; Great is Warren Sapp - on the field anyway; Very Good is what starts in the Pro Bowl D-Lines; Pickett on his best day rose to the level of barely adequate upgraded to decent by his effort. Raji was that minus the effort. I'm really looking forward to the upgrade this season with Daniels, Worthy, Datone, Boyd, and Jolly. We sure don't need Nix - as was described, a Raji clone. As for Hageman, I've seen him at his best and and his worst in the Big Ten. His inconsistency is worrisome, but the more pertinent point is, we need a Safety and an ILB more. Without anybody drafted higher than the 5th round, the D-Line will be fine.

As for the article about the LBs, Dakota nailed it with his square peg comment. Just the same, I also don't think they are ready to pull the plug on Perry, but grabbing an OLB in the second or third round would not really be doing that, given the plethora of injuries on the Packers and league-wide. I like the idea of Van Noy out of those mentioned in the article because 1. he would not be that square peg and 2. he could play either ILB or OLB. What I would really like is for Thompson to solve the Safety problem in free agency - Byrd or Ward, then draft quality college LBs in the first and second round.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

buckeyepackfan
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#60

After all this discussion about The Packers getting smaller and faster on the D-line, some which made sense, some that really didn't, seems that Ian Rapoport was really just tweeting bullshit, or the smoke screens are really coming out.

I love this time of disinformation, does anybody here really believe Ted and Mike are going to actually give away their strategy for the upcoming FA period and draft?

Mike McCarthy Looking for DL Datone Jones, Josh Boyd to Make Second-Year Leap

http://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/green-bay-packers-mike-mccarthy-looking-for-dl-datone-jones-josh-boyd-to-make-second-year-leap?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CheeseheadTv+%28Cheesehead+TV%29

"The Packers certainly haven’t ruled out the possibility of Raji and Pickett returning to Green Bay in 2014. As general manager Ted Thompson acknowledged on Friday, he’d like to keep his players all things being equal."

“But our evaluation as far as what we’re going to do bringing defensive linemen into our program––if anything, you always want to get bigger, stronger and faster and things like that. We’re definitely not going to be smaller.”

Pulled the article from the news feed. Was going to start a new thread, but decided this article piggybacked nicely with the original one.

I guess Ted and Mike are going to do what they are going to do.

Some will be happy, some will be unhappy, whatever happens, gonna make for some entertaining reading the next couple of months.

T

I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!

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