Switch to 4 - 3 · PACKERSHOME

nerdmann
Premier Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

I knew we were SOL when Rodgers went down, and I didn't fall for all the rah rah win one for the gipper BS that our "real fans" were selling. If there is a blue chip Tackle or Center when we draft, that is our pick. Rodgers has been making this line look much better than it is for years now. Time to protect him, period.

Oh defense, I don't even know where to start, but I would seriously think about a change to a 4-3. Getting linebackers was suppose to be easier than finding D-lineman, but we have failed miserably at this 3-4 defense because we haven't found the linebackers to play it properly.

As for Capers - he needs to be sent out to pasture.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

1: The Packers should, and I believe will, err on the side of risk. If they lose Aaron, then he's done for the season. But if they don't get him back in time, we're cooked anyway. Or so they seem to think.

2: I do not believe we're fucked without Aaron. I believe we could very easily have won the last THREE games without him. This last game pissed me off too. They're leaving the deep field open for us, or QB is 6 for 6 at 15+, and you're still forcing predictable 1 yard passes that in fact are SO predictable that JPP calls it out in the defensive huddle before pick sixing it? Bullshit.

This loss is on Mike. The last one was on Capers. Maybe we could say the one before that was on Ted for not having a good backup plan.

3: I agree about a C. We're pretty deep everywhere else on the line, assuming Sherrod's the real deal. Of course that remains to be seen, as he didn't see the field this past week.

4: I do prefer the 3-4 as a defense generally speaking. I like the extra element of surprise and the attacking philosophy. However, right now we have 4-3 personnel. Why not at least do a hybrid? And anyway with all the 3-4 defenses out there, 4-3 guys would seem to be more available at this time. Just seems logical to me.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

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Rockmolder
Honored Member

11 years ago

4: I do prefer the 3-4 as a defense generally speaking. I like the extra element of surprise and the attacking philosophy. However, right now we have 4-3 personnel. Why not at least do a hybrid? And anyway with all the 3-4 defenses out there, 4-3 guys would seem to be more available at this time. Just seems logical to me.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Like?... Who are our players who are better suited to be playing 4-3 DE?

Perry was projected as an OLB because of his size. Matthews isn't a DE-type player.

Daniels, Jones, Neal and Wilson would all be UTs, none of which I'd be very comfortable with having at DE in real pass rushing situations.

They could all play the same role as Cullen Jenkins used to, kicking out to DE on first and second down and going inside, making room for KGB on 3rd. We just don't have that Kampan and KGB on the roster right now.

Not to mention what you'd do with the OLBs, ILBs in case we'd go back to a 4-3.

Or do you see this differently?

Dulak
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Even thou this thread is about rodgers; we have started talking about the draft and the defense ...

So ... the defense. At the beginning of the year our run defense was Really really good. We had some injuries and so I thought our pass D was due to this. Now we can see we have some issues; either getting to the QB or our pass D or both.

I think this is our best year for LBers to tell you the truth since say 2009... barring injuries thou. If we had our players IMO our LBers would be doing much better. Our Dline looks quite good also.

I miss our press man coverage we used to see with woodson and harris ... now our guys play soft and appear to leave the receiver for the 'other guy' ...

nerdmann
Premier Member Topic Starter

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder

Perry, Daniels, Datone Jones, Neal are all 4-3 pass rushing ends. If Jones bulks way up, maybe he could play inside.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

11 years ago

I wouldn't mind seeing them employ this a few snaps.

DL Neal - Pickett - Jolly - Raji
LB Perry - Hawk - Matthews

On paper (or interwebz) it looks intriguing.

Rockmolder
Honored Member

11 years ago

Perry, Daniels, Datone Jones, Neal are all 4-3 pass rushing ends. If Jones bulks way up, maybe he could play inside.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Since when is 300-310 lbs a good size for a 4-3 pass rushing end? Like I said, they're UTs in a 4-3. And I stated that Perry was undersized, one of the big reasons he was projected as an OLB coming out of college and not picked higher by a 4-3 team, so how do you list him here without any explanation.

The only ones who have the size/bodytype are Neal and Jones. Both are quite decent rushers, but hardly the reason a 4-3 would be better suited for our personel than the 3-4.

warhawk
Senior Member

11 years ago

The problem I have with a discussion like this is that the "4" part of this has been shot in the ass with injuries. When they were winning we had Mathews, Perry, Jones, and Hawk. Hawk stepped up, Perry was on the rise, Jones was holding his own, and Mathews was Mathews. When they started losing and the D went to hell only Hawk was left standing.

I've been saying for weeks we need these guys on the field doing what they are being paid to do. It will help the D overall and certainly help the back end as I have no doubt the pressure would be much more consistent and effective.

I saw a stat last week showing there hadn't been a sack by an OLB in three consecutive games. No Mathews, or Perry, Jones out for awhile and a banged up Neal and go figure why.

I'm just saying I think we have more of an injury issue then a scheme issue. If they were running a 4-3 and three of the DL were out I doubt they would be very good either.

"The train is leaving the station."

Dulak
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Originally Posted by: warhawk

At the start of the season it looked as if we were going to do real well defensively; we stopped the run (Very well) - although we had a bit of a porous backend (errr you know what I mean). But our safetys were a bit iffy and we were missing bernett. So I was hoping we'd get that nailed down and then we'd be ok. But we have been rife with injuries at the LB position and our DBs well have been a bit off too.

steveishere
Veteran Member

11 years ago

Perry, Daniels, Datone Jones, Neal are all 4-3 pass rushing ends. If Jones bulks way up, maybe he could play inside.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Perry is the only one of those guys who has ever even played 4-3 end. Jones played 3-4 NT and End in college and has the right body type for a 3-4 end. Daniels and Neal played DT in a 4-3 in college and have the body type for a DT. You don't make any sense at all. If any of the actual lineman fit at 4-3 end it's CJ Wilson.

I do think with some adjustments we could make a move to a 4-3 without too much of an issue but you are really reaching to say all of our players are 4-3 guys. Especially with the ones you listed. We'd be very heavy on interior DTs and light on edge rushers

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

11 years ago

#10

I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna make a complete switch in mid-season, and undoubtedly they play a few snaps with a 4 man line now.

I may be the last one defending Capers, but I still say, with the personnel we have, FINESSE - trickery - Capers style D is what's needed. A switch to 4 - 3 would probably include a new D Coordinator, and would involve a major change of philosophy from finesse to toughness. Wanting that toughness is easy to say, but making it happen without the right kind of personnel is difficult.

I could see a 4 - 3 next season - even though I'd prefer keeping the 3 - 4. Datone Jones and Nick Perry, rotating with Neal at 4 - 3 DE; Daniels and Worthy rotating with Jolly at DT; Matthews and Mulumba and/or a first round pick at OLB; I guess Hawk could handle MLB until something better comes along. Even with just 3 LBs, that would seem to be the area of need.

3 - 4 or 4 - 3, one key I see is getting rid of those big soft fatties - primarily Raji. Jolly comes back after 3 years out of the league, and outplays both Raji and Pickett - what does that say about Raji and Pickett?

Since this apparently was originally the thread about Rodgers, I will just say this: none of this discussion would have come up with him there masking the D problems/outscoring teams. 3 straight 27s against us? Some of that on our offense's turnovers? Aaron woulda put 30 - 50 on the board against those teams - which is not to say better D wouldn't be really nice.

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