texaspackerbacker
12 years ago

So you don't think that the Packers are in need of a quality offensive lineman or defensive lineman? Enough to make a trade up into the teens for either of the guys I have listed? I would much prefer to draft a guy like Jonathan Cooper who could come in and start on day 1. Trusting EDS for an entire year is taking a risk, imo, more of a risk than trusting in a rookie.


I'll agree with you on Vaccarro. I even stated that might be a reach and that he is being overvalued but it is a position of need for the Packers.

Originally Posted by: Yerko 



What makes you think I don't think we need D-Line help? I think I've stated previously (it's hard to keep straight which forum I said things hahaha) that the top first round priority is a D-Lineman - maybe Jesse Williams, but the UCLA guy I can't recall the name seemed more likely. As for the O Line, it depends greatly on Sherrod. Thompson, McCarthy, et al know a lot more than us about his chances of coming back healthy. For the Packers to go O Line in either the first or second would mean a complete lack of confidence in Sherrod, also Datko, and/or them knowing something we all don't know about Bulaga that would make his crappy performance even before the injury chronic. I expect Sherrod and Bulaga starting with Newhouse and Datko backing them up. I like EDS. The running game and the pass protection both were significantly upgraded when he replaced Saturday. Furthermore, as I have also stated (this forum I think hahaha) the new and better way to deal with the center position is to take a big bruising O Lineman and convert/cross-train him - similar to what we did with EDS. I'd like to see the Packer pick up a guy like that in the late rounds. The other factor with regard to drafting O Linemen is that we are still committed to the damn ZBS, and most of those big name/gigantic road grader types that potentially we could tade up for would not be exactly suited for ZBS. I'm also relatively satisfied with what we have at Safety, and like I said, would not draft a "hitter" safety, instead primarily a coverage guy, because that's the Packer way in recent years.
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Yerko
12 years ago

What makes you think I don't think we need D-Line help? I think I've stated previously (it's hard to keep straight which forum I said things hahaha) that the top first round priority is a D-Lineman - maybe Jesse Williams, but the UCLA guy I can't recall the name seemed more likely. As for the O Line, it depends greatly on Sherrod. Thompson, McCarthy, et al know a lot more than us about his chances of coming back healthy. For the Packers to go O Line in either the first or second would mean a complete lack of confidence in Sherrod, also Datko, and/or them knowing something we all don't know about Bulaga that would make his crappy performance even before the injury chronic. I expect Sherrod and Bulaga starting with Newhouse and Datko backing them up. I like EDS. The running game and the pass protection both were significantly upgraded when he replaced Saturday. Furthermore, as I have also stated (this forum I think hahaha) the new and better way to deal with the center position is to take a big bruising O Lineman and convert/cross-train him - similar to what we did with EDS. I'd like to see the Packer pick up a guy like that in the late rounds. The other factor with regard to drafting O Linemen is that we are still committed to the damn ZBS, and most of those big name/gigantic road grader types that potentially we could tade up for would not be exactly suited for ZBS. I'm also relatively satisfied with what we have at Safety, and like I said, would not draft a "hitter" safety, instead primarily a coverage guy, because that's the Packer way in recent years.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I didn't say that you don't think we need defensive line help. I said quality defensive line help. My post was just to say IF Ted Thompson traded up, that's who I am hoping he would trade up for. Those are the guys that I think are worthy of a trade up.
If you aren't looking for a top talent defensive linemen like Star Lotulelei in the first, I am sure Ted Thompson can trade down and get a guy like Jesse Williams somewhere in the second.

EDS was a good addition to the offensive line, but he was replacing and empty gas tank in Jeff Saturday so that alone can make EDS look better than he is. I believe he is a serviceable center but I also believe that a guy like Cooper (a mauler) will be a better option. He is worth a trade up if he is sitting there in the teens.
I'm putting zero stock in Sherrod and think that Bulaga and Barclay will be the starting LT and RTs for next season, with Newhouse and Datko being the backups. We haven't heard anything positive about Sherrod (at least I haven't) and his return.

I don't think Ted Thompson needs to stockpile picks this year. I am hoping if the right guys are there (Lotulelei or Cooper) that he trades up and drafts them. Both guys are immediate difference makers.



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porky88
12 years ago
Most team run several zone plays, so most teams have a variation of zone blocking in their playbook. It's become more of a label like the west coast offense. Teams really do run just about everything now. The Packers rely on it more than others, certainly, but I don't think a switch in philosophies would fix the running game. I think you have to look at play-calling and personnel.
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Most team run several zone plays, so most teams have a variation of zone blocking in their playbook. It's become more of a label like the west coast offense. Teams really do run just about everything now. The Packers rely on it more than others, certainly, but I don't think a switch in philosophies would fix the running game. I think you have to look at play-calling and personnel.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



I know zilch about OL, but when the Packers started having James Campen, who has never played in zone blocking scheme nor taught it before was the OL coach, I didn't like it. I know there's more to coaching than just "did you do it" because there are a plethora of successful coaches who've never played a snap of football outside of maybe high school. It was just a feeling that I didn't like. It's a new scheme and having someone who is also new to it ... yuck. Then factor in that I like OL to be the big fatties who just man handle DL so that didn't help.
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play2win
12 years ago
TRUE dat.

I think our team needs to get bigger and faster, across the board. That is why I wouldn't mind them drafting a LT or a C early, if they feel that player has that kind of power for the position. I say that wanting desperately for them to add that to our DL. Worthy was a bit undersized, Daniels definitely is undersized, though I like his motor and attitude.

It seems the size/speed/talent quotient in the trenches is what comes off most boards early, especially on the DL.
texaspackerbacker
12 years ago
I will try to lump in a reply to the four posts immediately above. I DON'T like big fatties (in football hahaha), not O Line or especially not D Line. You hardly see anybody on any other team with a gut to match Raji and Pickett, and neither plays with any toughness. About the only good you can say is Raji is fairly agile - for a big fat slob, and Pickett is a pretty good open field tackler. With their mass, Raji should never need to chase people and Pickett should never need an open field tackle. They should clog up the hole like bacon grease in a drain. I like the "bigger and faster" concept - gosh that makes us one of ...... I'd guess 32 teams shooting for that. Actually, though, that's not accurate. The big problem with the ZBS is not so much that we run it slightly more than other teams. It is the PERSONNEL thing - which dictates that we use smaller supposedly more mobile O Linemen. Not only is that a recipe for a bad running game, but it seems to mess up pass protection too. Years ago when the Packers went to the ZBS, I was excited to think of a 6th round draft pick - Terrell Davis - who became all world, and when he got injured, a couple of past and future nobodies stepping in and gaining about 150 yards a game. I don't know, does Campen get the blame for why nothing close to that ever happened here? Or what? I STILL like EDS enough to give a big no way to trading up for of all things, a center ..... yuck. As for that Star of Samoa guy, doesn't he have some sort of a heart condition that makes him a significant question mark? I didn't notice a double R in his name, but with all those letters, who can be sure? hahahaha (if this reference is off the wall to everybody here, I may be referring to something in the other forum - the RR curse - forgive me, I'm old and can't remember for sure). I hereby go on record predicting that Ted Thompson will neither trade UP or DOWN in the first round, and more likely up than down, if at all in the later rounds.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
play2win
12 years ago

I will try to lump in a reply to the four posts immediately above. I DON'T like big fatties (in football hahaha), not O Line or especially not D Line. You hardly see anybody on any other team with a gut to match Raji and Pickett, and neither plays with any toughness. About the only good you can say is Raji is fairly agile - for a big fat slob, and Pickett is a pretty good open field tackler. With their mass, Raji should never need to chase people and Pickett should never need an open field tackle. They should clog up the hole like bacon grease in a drain. I like the "bigger and faster" concept - gosh that makes us one of ...... I'd guess 32 teams shooting for that. Actually, though, that's not accurate. The big problem with the ZBS is not so much that we run it slightly more than other teams. It is the PERSONNEL thing - which dictates that we use smaller supposedly more mobile O Linemen. Not only is that a recipe for a bad running game, but it seems to mess up pass protection too. Years ago when the Packers went to the ZBS, I was excited to think of a 6th round draft pick - Terrell Davis - who became all world, and when he got injured, a couple of past and future nobodies stepping in and gaining about 150 yards a game. I don't know, does Campen get the blame for why nothing close to that ever happened here? Or what? I STILL like EDS enough to give a big no way to trading up for of all things, a center ..... yuck. As for that Star of Samoa guy, doesn't he have some sort of a heart condition that makes him a significant question mark? I didn't notice a double R in his name, but with all those letters, who can be sure? hahahaha (if this reference is off the wall to everybody here, I may be referring to something in the other forum - the RR curse - forgive me, I'm old and can't remember for sure). I hereby go on record predicting that Ted Thompson will neither trade UP or DOWN in the first round, and more likely up than down, if at all in the later rounds.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



Tell that to Ty Warren, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork... 6 SB rings between them. Haloti Ngata, Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Art Jones... The Giants had Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard to go along with their bigger, faster DEs.

We won SB XLV with Raji, Pickett and Howard Green - all big fatties.

How can you say neither Raji nor Pickett "plays with toughness?" That's insane. They've just taken all the snaps at their positions over the last two years since they've had no big fatty backups... You simply cannot have those guys taking 80%+ of your defensive snaps.
nerdmann
12 years ago

Tell that to Ty Warren, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork... 6 SB rings between them. Haloti Ngata, Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Art Jones... The Giants had Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard to go along with their bigger, faster DEs.

We won SB XLV with Raji, Pickett and Howard Green - all big fatties.

How can you say neither Raji nor Pickett "plays with toughness?" That's insane. They've just taken all the snaps at their positions over the last two years since they've had no big fatty backups... You simply cannot have those guys taking 80%+ of your defensive snaps.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Agreed, what we need is more beef up front. Dudes who are hard to push out of the way.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
texaspackerbacker
12 years ago

Tell that to Ty Warren, Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork... 6 SB rings between them. Haloti Ngata, Ma'ake Kemoeatu and Art Jones... The Giants had Chris Canty and Rocky Bernard to go along with their bigger, faster DEs.

We won SB XLV with Raji, Pickett and Howard Green - all big fatties.

How can you say neither Raji nor Pickett "plays with toughness?" That's insane. They've just taken all the snaps at their positions over the last two years since they've had no big fatty backups... You simply cannot have those guys taking 80%+ of your defensive snaps.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



Maybe the grass just seems greener on the other side of the fence, but I recall Wilfork and Ngata being that kind of tough hard to push out of the way guy I hoped Raji would be. I don't remember that much about Warren and Seymour and those others, but I don't recall guts hanging over the belt like Raji and Pickett either. I agree with you about the 80% of the snaps. I'd like to see them rotate at NT for now. I dread the thought of Raji being paid big money at some point, though. The big lump has been a colossal disappointment from my perspective. We won the SB IN SPITE of Raji. Pickett played OK, but not the kind of game you expect from somebody with his body type. Green actually did show some toughness, as I recall. We should NOT re-sign Raji, but instead get somebody like Green for 1/5 to 1/10 as much.
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Yerko
12 years ago

I will try to lump in a reply to the four posts immediately above. I DON'T like big fatties (in football hahaha), not O Line or especially not D Line. You hardly see anybody on any other team with a gut to match Raji and Pickett, and neither plays with any toughness. About the only good you can say is Raji is fairly agile - for a big fat slob, and Pickett is a pretty good open field tackler. With their mass, Raji should never need to chase people and Pickett should never need an open field tackle. They should clog up the hole like bacon grease in a drain. I like the "bigger and faster" concept - gosh that makes us one of ...... I'd guess 32 teams shooting for that. Actually, though, that's not accurate. The big problem with the ZBS is not so much that we run it slightly more than other teams. It is the PERSONNEL thing - which dictates that we use smaller supposedly more mobile O Linemen. Not only is that a recipe for a bad running game, but it seems to mess up pass protection too. Years ago when the Packers went to the ZBS, I was excited to think of a 6th round draft pick - Terrell Davis - who became all world, and when he got injured, a couple of past and future nobodies stepping in and gaining about 150 yards a game. I don't know, does Campen get the blame for why nothing close to that ever happened here? Or what? I STILL like EDS enough to give a big no way to trading up for of all things, a center ..... yuck. As for that Star of Samoa guy, doesn't he have some sort of a heart condition that makes him a significant question mark? I didn't notice a double R in his name, but with all those letters, who can be sure? hahahaha (if this reference is off the wall to everybody here, I may be referring to something in the other forum - the RR curse - forgive me, I'm old and can't remember for sure). I hereby go on record predicting that Ted Thompson will neither trade UP or DOWN in the first round, and more likely up than down, if at all in the later rounds.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



If the ZBS is more of a personnel thing and our guys are too small and mobile to run it, then why do you like EDS so much at center? Currently listed, he is the smallest out of the Packers starting offensive lineman. Jonathan Cooper is slightly (and I mean slightly) bigger than EDS but he is one of the best run blocking center/guards (considered a mauler, not finesse) in the draft and is also an exceptional pass blocker.

With the defense the Packers currently run, big fatties like Raji and Pickett are guys the Packers need. Star Lotulelei had to leave the combine early due to some tests that showed heart problems. Since then, his heart problems have been cleared...for good. Lotulelei comes from a 3-4 system so he has already proven he can play in it. He is quick and powerful and if I had to make a professional comparison I'd say he is a Cullen Jenkins-type of player.

That is my reasoning for moving up for these two players. They have incredible day 1 talent and if either of them slip into the teens, it would be great to move up and draft one of them.

I'm no expert though. 😄
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