Why Moss over Sanders ...· Page 2

dfosterf
Veteran Member

16 years ago

I read my posts, and one may think that I pin this seasons defensive struggles on the backers.. not really.

No doubt they are part of the problem, but my ax here to grind is that this by all appearances should have been the strength of this defense.. yet for the second year in a row.. they haven't lived up to that billing.

That is why I have questions about Moss and why I have quit hounding the oline (They still need a ton of work, but a year of railing on them got old).. and turned my keyboard upon this task.

If we fix the issues along the dline.. we still will have a group of backers that take bad angles, poor tackling techniques, mental lapses, and coverage issues..

I want this defense to be a tone setter.. behind the Dline, I believe we have the talent to be that.. we just have to get them into a position to become that and playing to their talent.

"pack93z" wrote:

I know you have been watching the linebackers carefully. I know, for example, that you focused on them last game. This is why I am so disturbed by your posts. I happen to respect your perspective, ('cept Donovan :icon_smile: ) and I have other fish to fry and don't need this bullshit right now.

I'm taking over the job of "main-bitcher" of the offensive line. You are falling down on the job, and I am surpassing you in qualifications in this area, as you are too busy bitching about the linebackers.

:thumbleft:

I am more hopeful than confident that our poor linebacking this year is more a product of our abysmal d-line play, but rest assured I for one am paying VERY careful attention to your input. I readily admit I am not qualified to give as informed an opinion on those linebackers, as come replay time, I am too busy flipping the f##k out over the previous defensive play, or lack of one, so to speak.

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#12

I know you have been watching the linebackers carefully. I know, for example, that you focused on them last game. This is why I am so disturbed by your posts. I happen to respect your perspective, ('cept Donovan :icon_smile: ) and I have other fish to fry and don't need this bullshit right now.

I'm taking over the job of "main-bitcher" of the offensive line. You are falling down on the job, and I am surpassing you in qualifications in this area, as you are too busy bitching about the linebackers.

:thumbleft:

I am more hopeful than confident that our poor linebacking this year is more a product of our abysmal d-line play, but rest assured I for one am paying VERY careful attention to your input. I readily admit I am not qualified to give as informed an opinion on those linebackers, as come replay time, I am too busy flipping the f##k out over the previous defensive play, or lack of one, so to speak.

"dfosterf" wrote:

And you are doing a mighty fine job at the oline too. :lol:

My wife told me to put down the remote last weekend as it almost went for a ride towards the plasma screen... I was so pissed when Colledge missed that blitz read late in the game.. damn.. I was more pissed about that then the BS holding call on Moll. :lol:

But alas I relinquish that task.. you rail on the oline.. keep up the good work. I get too bloody pissed to let go of my bias with Colledge at guard. :lol:

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

#13

Hmmm, the past two seasons to finally come out an say what has been obvious all along.

Moss has been in charge of this group, it shouldn't take the media beating the defensive staff up to get this type of reaction.

I glad he came out an said it.. at least someone this side of the Fox is starting to hold players accountable in the press and to this fan base.

Expand the conversation to about 5 or 6 more in that front seven and then turn over to the oline as well.

For all those that keep saying, calling players out might hurt there feeling, well Hawk didn't seem hurt by it.. almost as if he is saying, finally the kick in the arse.

"pack93z" wrote:

Think about this comment. It took two years? So we were supposed to be disappointed in him right away even though its common thought to give players three years to come around?

Or our coaches should be blasting first year players right out of the gate when they hit they second year which often times happens to be sophomore slump?

I have to disagree. It SHOULD be asked, not something he simply says 'hey you wit the pad of paper, i have something to say'. If he were to have done that, then he'd be blasted for taking things out of house deliberately.

In this case. The reporter did a good job of asking a good question in which Moss agreed and ultimately called Hawk out. Who, by the way, agreed, not like he could say much else to it though.

DakotaT
Select Member

16 years ago

#14

I know you have been watching the linebackers carefully. I know, for example, that you focused on them last game. This is why I am so disturbed by your posts. I happen to respect your perspective, ('cept Donovan :icon_smile: ) and I have other fish to fry and don't need this bullshit right now.

I'm taking over the job of "main-bitcher" of the offensive line. You are falling down on the job, and I am surpassing you in qualifications in this area, as you are too busy bitching about the linebackers.

:thumbleft:

I am more hopeful than confident that our poor linebacking this year is more a product of our abysmal d-line play, but rest assured I for one am paying VERY careful attention to your input. I readily admit I am not qualified to give as informed an opinion on those linebackers, as come replay time, I am too busy flipping the f##k out over the previous defensive play, or lack of one, so to speak.

"pack93z" wrote:

And you are doing a mighty fine job at the oline too. :lol:

My wife told me to put down the remote last weekend as it almost went for a ride towards the plasma screen... I was so pissed when Colledge missed that blitz read late in the game.. damn.. I was more pissed about that then the BS holding call on Moll. :lol:

But alas I relinquish that task.. you rail on the oline.. keep up the good work. I get too bloody pissed to let go of my bias with Colledge at guard. :lol:

"dfosterf" wrote:

WTF kind of Packer fans are you guys? You are suppose to enjoy the live Packer broadcast with friends and alcohol. Dissecting plays is to be done from your DVR much later in the week. :thumbright:

dfosterf
Veteran Member

16 years ago

#15

I know you have been watching the linebackers carefully. I know, for example, that you focused on them last game. This is why I am so disturbed by your posts. I happen to respect your perspective, ('cept Donovan :icon_smile: ) and I have other fish to fry and don't need this bullshit right now.

I'm taking over the job of "main-bitcher" of the offensive line. You are falling down on the job, and I am surpassing you in qualifications in this area, as you are too busy bitching about the linebackers.

:thumbleft:

I am more hopeful than confident that our poor linebacking this year is more a product of our abysmal d-line play, but rest assured I for one am paying VERY careful attention to your input. I readily admit I am not qualified to give as informed an opinion on those linebackers, as come replay time, I am too busy flipping the f##k out over the previous defensive play, or lack of one, so to speak.

"DakotaT" wrote:

And you are doing a mighty fine job at the oline too. :lol:

My wife told me to put down the remote last weekend as it almost went for a ride towards the plasma screen... I was so pissed when Colledge missed that blitz read late in the game.. damn.. I was more pissed about that then the BS holding call on Moll. :lol:

But alas I relinquish that task.. you rail on the oline.. keep up the good work. I get too bloody pissed to let go of my bias with Colledge at guard. :lol:

"pack93z" wrote:

WTF kind of Packer fans are you guys? You are suppose to enjoy the live Packer broadcast with friends and alcohol. Dissecting plays is to be done from your DVR much later in the week. :thumbright:

"dfosterf" wrote:

F##king oh too keeps kicking bozz and me out of the live chat and then not letting us back in. I think he likes to hang with the Ted Thompson haters. Then, later in the week, when we bitch about it, he cracks open the middle of an MCSE textbook, copies and pastes some SQL mumbo-jumbo, and tells us he'll see us next Sunday, and oh, btw, why don't you two idiots learn how to read?

(this is a joke)

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#16

WTF kind of Packer fans are you guys? You are suppose to enjoy the live Packer broadcast with friends and alcohol. Dissecting plays is to be done from your DVR much later in the week. :thumbright:

"DakotaT" wrote:

I am not much fun to watch a game with.. I will admit that I am a freak and way to intense on gameday.. someplace along the line, when I was wired someone played an awful joke on me and those that try to watch a game with me.

I will tell you this.. I have more fire than I have seen on the defensive side of the Packers team in a few weeks any given Sunday.

I kid you not.. people are addicted to many things in this world.. mine happens to be football.. I lost the ability to play the game years ago.. but on Sundays.. you would be hard pressed to tell.

With the playoffs pretty much out of reach this season.. I will probably enjoy the Packers like I do most other football games... exception the Badgers.. I wouldn't even turn them on much this season.. another defense that just freaking pisses me off. :lol:

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#17

Think about this comment. It took two years? So we were supposed to be disappointed in him right away even though its common thought to give players three years to come around?

Or our coaches should be blasting first year players right out of the gate when they hit they second year which often times happens to be sophomore slump?

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Okay.. two years might be a reach.. lets go with a back mid way through last season.

Hawk came out of the blocks his rookie year and played well.. maybe not earth shatteringly impactful but was very solid.

Fast forward to half way through the 07 season.. his play was slipping and he went from making a difference to being just solid.. right then, 20 games into his career, you bet your ass they should have been on him in practice.. maybe not in the press, but he has more talent that he has shown the last year and a half... exception was opening night this year.. he was all over the place.

My point, is, if you accept even a young player to get by and not play up to potential, it sets a pattern of a player that will never reach potential.

From what I see, we have a large number of players not playing up to their potential.. that speaks volumes to me in the job of the guys getting them ready to play.

Which is why in the first place I asked why Winston Moss.. right next to the offensive line, doing the least with the talent they have in front of them.

If it is the scheme, the Assistant Head Coach should be able to effectively communicate with the Sanders to get the scheme adjusted for the Backers to be successful.

To date.. it isn't happening because the Backers are still under performing. Which is basically my viewpoint and basis in the first place.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

porky88
Veteran Member

16 years ago

#18

I read my posts, and one may think that I pin this seasons defensive struggles on the backers.. not really.

No doubt they are part of the problem, but my ax here to grind is that this by all appearances should have been the strength of this defense.. yet for the second year in a row.. they haven't lived up to that billing.

That is why I have questions about Moss and why I have quit hounding the oline (They still need a ton of work, but a year of railing on them got old).. and turned my keyboard upon this task.

If we fix the issues along the dline.. we still will have a group of backers that take bad angles, poor tackling techniques, mental lapses, and coverage issues..

I want this defense to be a tone setter.. behind the Dline, I believe we have the talent to be that.. we just have to get them into a position to become that and playing to their talent.

"pack93z" wrote:

I don't know of any stellar group of linebackers in the league who play behind a bad defensive line. I think your expectations for the linebackers are a little high because of how poorly the defensive line is. Fix the D-Line and the linebackers will be better to in my opinion. Then again the whole defense would be.

Nobody can convince me that this defense isn't Bob Sanders and that his boys aren't the defensive lineman. Nothing wrong with that because he's the coordinator and a former defensive line coach, but it appears to be time for a change.

As far as Moss goes. Everything I read and hear about him makes me thing he's better for the job if McCarthy wants to stick with someone the players already know and probably respect. Harry Sydney speaks highly of him and this is a guy who hasn't exactly been on board that train Mike McCarthy was talking about. He's aggressive and here you hear him calling out a player here. A guy who should be a star and is rather popular too.

http://www.row12.com/

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

16 years ago

#19

Think about this comment. It took two years? So we were supposed to be disappointed in him right away even though its common thought to give players three years to come around?

Or our coaches should be blasting first year players right out of the gate when they hit they second year which often times happens to be sophomore slump?

"pack93z" wrote:

Okay.. two years might be a reach.. lets go with a back mid way through last season.

Hawk came out of the blocks his rookie year and played well.. maybe not earth shatteringly impactful but was very solid.

Fast forward to half way through the 07 season.. his play was slipping and he went from making a difference to being just solid.. right then, 20 games into his career, you bet your ass they should have been on him in practice.. maybe not in the press, but he has more talent that he has shown the last year and a half... exception was opening night this year.. he was all over the place.

My point, is, if you accept even a young player to get by and not play up to potential, it sets a pattern of a player that will never reach potential.

From what I see, we have a large number of players not playing up to their potential.. that speaks volumes to me in the job of the guys getting them ready to play.

Which is why in the first place I asked why Winston Moss.. right next to the offensive line, doing the least with the talent they have in front of them.

If it is the scheme, the Assistant Head Coach should be able to effectively communicate with the Sanders to get the scheme adjusted for the Backers to be successful.

To date.. it isn't happening because the Backers are still under performing. Which is basically my viewpoint and basis in the first place.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Ooh I get it. So because he played 'well' his rookie year and had an 'off' year his sophomore year, we should be demanding greatness out of him in his third year?

I suppose that makes sense.

Not really, but I'll roll with it. If he doesn't solidify himself as a sold LB in his fourth year, then I'll have some problems.

Pack93z
Select Member

16 years ago

#20

Ooh I get it. So because he played 'well' his rookie year and had an 'off' year his sophomore year, we should be demanding greatness out of him in his third year?

I suppose that makes sense.

Not really, but I'll roll with it. If he doesn't solidify himself as a sold LB in his fourth year, then I'll have some problems.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Okay, maybe I am missing something, we are talking about Moss and his ability to coach this group.

Year two, yes I expected more out of Hawk, it didn't happen but I wasn't jumping all over him.. 2nd year blues. Fine.

Third year, I expected growth out of Hawk and Poppinga.. IMO, we haven't seen much growth this year.

So to summarize the thougtht, if Moss is this exceptional coaching prospect that people claim him to be, then someone in this linebacker corp would begin to seperate and step up.

Porky make the point that the line hasn't allowed them to grow, but I wanted to see that group.. so this past Sunday I watched the backers with all intent.. what are they doing.

Poppinga is a disappointment... period.. get him in space and he is a marginal backer.. period.

Hawk.. for a middle linebacker, he should have his nose in run plays and playing 4 to 5 yards deep should be able to recover in passing plays.. he is simply struggling in reading the play and is at least a beat late or later in making a break.. in this league.. that is a lifetime.. a middle backer has less responsibility than either SAM or Wil.. it is a position that allow the backer to play instinctive ball.. and that is not what Hawk is right now.

Back to the point at hand.. Moss hasn't gotten this group to progress.. if anything they are going South.. and I am glad that finally this coach is talking about it.. we are fans that don't want to be fed the garbage that has been spilled at the pressers..

I want to hear them say what is readily seen watching the game.. as I said before.. that renewed a little faith that they aren't blind.. next step is correcting the issue, which to date hasn't been done in my opinion.. this group has to step up their game.

BTW.. Jolly and Pickett didn't get any penetration.. but they were doing their job.. hitting the gap and occupying the oline for a quick spell.. Hawk and IMO Poppinga weren't engaging on the run defense.. instead they got swallowed up and then had to chase the play down from behind.

Again.. that is my issue with Moss as a coach.. this group isn't playing smart attacking ball.. on their heels and late in filling.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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