brnt247
16 years ago
It's tough to build depth through the DLine. Most quality players aren't willing to sign contracts with teams that are looking to use them to build depth. They sign where they are truly needed and will get playing time, and if they aren't, then they probably aren't much better than Montgomery, Thompson, and Pettway.
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Greg C.
16 years ago

It's tough to build depth through the DLine. Most quality players aren't willing to sign contracts with teams that are looking to use them to build depth. They sign where they are truly needed and will get playing time, and if they aren't, then they probably aren't much better than Montgomery, Thompson, and Pettway.

"brnt247" wrote:



Yes, and that's why Corey Williams was traded. It would be hard to justify paying huge money for a player who was not even a starter. But the burden of finding good backups at a low price still falls on Thompson, and it hasn't worked out well this year.

Just for the record, here's what Mike Vandermause said in a chat when asked about this article:

[Comment From Andrew]
You've been accused of being a Ted Thompson apologist, but your article the other day was pretty tough on him. Did you have a change of heart or were you misunderstood most of the season?

[Vandermause]
I get a kick out of readers who, when I write something they don't like, immediately bring out the "you're in the tank for the Packers" accusations. I have no reason to be an apologist for the Packers, and I couldn't sleep at night if I was. I call it like I see it, good, bad or indifferent. Some may agree with my viewpoint, and others vehemently disagree. But when all is said and done, I don't worry about what others, including Packers management, might think when I write a column. I aim to be fair in offering my opinion. When Thompson does something right, I'll say it. When he screws something up, I'll say that too.
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Zero2Cool
16 years ago

It's tough to build depth through the DLine. Most quality players aren't willing to sign contracts with teams that are looking to use them to build depth. They sign where they are truly needed and will get playing time, and if they aren't, then they probably aren't much better than Montgomery, Thompson, and Pettway.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yes, and that's why Corey Williams was traded. It would be hard to justify paying huge money for a player who was not even a starter. But the burden of finding good backups at a low price still falls on Thompson, and it hasn't worked out well this year.

Just for the record, here's what Mike Vandermause said in a chat when asked about this article:

[Comment From Andrew]
You've been accused of being a Ted Thompson apologist, but your article the other day was pretty tough on him. Did you have a change of heart or were you misunderstood most of the season?

[Vandermause]
I get a kick out of readers who, when I write something they don't like, immediately bring out the "you're in the tank for the Packers" accusations. I have no reason to be an apologist for the Packers, and I couldn't sleep at night if I was. I call it like I see it, good, bad or indifferent. Some may agree with my viewpoint, and others vehemently disagree. But when all is said and done, I don't worry about what others, including Packers management, might think when I write a column. I aim to be fair in offering my opinion. When Thompson does something right, I'll say it. When he screws something up, I'll say that too.

"brnt247" wrote:



I can't recall a single person saying trading Williams was a mistake last year. It was known he was going to be gone. We weren't going to pay him that kind of jack for the role he played. Especially with the season Jolly was having up to when he was injured and using (wasting) a pick in the first round on another DT.

It was pretty well understood Williams was going to be gone in FA and when we got a 2nd round pick for him, people were accurately saying Ted got something for nothing.

Sadly, that 2nd round seems to be nothing, but its too early to make that assessment in my opinion.
UserPostedImage
brnt247
16 years ago
Trades for draft picks are based off of percentages. Most GM's make that trade a majority of the time, it just seemed like a smart move at the time. Trades like that happen in baseball all the time, sometimes the player pans out and sometimes the draft pick or minor leaguer becomes a star. Most of the time, another 2nd round draft pick would help us more than an expensive Corey Williams.

I remember last year our DLine depth was all the rave. We had a rotation that everyone was calling one of the best and deepest in the league, you can't blame someone for trading from what seemed to be an apparent strength to trade for the future.
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porky88
16 years ago

It's tough to build depth through the DLine. Most quality players aren't willing to sign contracts with teams that are looking to use them to build depth. They sign where they are truly needed and will get playing time, and if they aren't, then they probably aren't much better than Montgomery, Thompson, and Pettway.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yes, and that's why Corey Williams was traded. It would be hard to justify paying huge money for a player who was not even a starter. But the burden of finding good backups at a low price still falls on Thompson, and it hasn't worked out well this year.

Just for the record, here's what Mike Vandermause said in a chat when asked about this article:

[Comment From Andrew]
You've been accused of being a Ted Thompson apologist, but your article the other day was pretty tough on him. Did you have a change of heart or were you misunderstood most of the season?

[Vandermause]
I get a kick out of readers who, when I write something they don't like, immediately bring out the "you're in the tank for the Packers" accusations. I have no reason to be an apologist for the Packers, and I couldn't sleep at night if I was. I call it like I see it, good, bad or indifferent. Some may agree with my viewpoint, and others vehemently disagree. But when all is said and done, I don't worry about what others, including Packers management, might think when I write a column. I aim to be fair in offering my opinion. When Thompson does something right, I'll say it. When he screws something up, I'll say that too.

"Greg C." wrote:



I can't recall a single person saying trading Williams was a mistake last year. It was known he was going to be gone. We weren't going to pay him that kind of jack for the role he played. Especially with the season Jolly was having up to when he was injured and using (wasting) a pick in the first round on another DT.

It was pretty well understood Williams was going to be gone in FA and when we got a 2nd round pick for him, people were accurately saying Ted got something for nothing.

Sadly, that 2nd round seems to be nothing, but its too early to make that assessment in my opinion.

"brnt247" wrote:



Yep the problem isn't that the Packers traded Corey Williams. They did get a 2nd round pick and that was fair value.

The problem is that the Packers didn't replace Corey Williams.

Thompson drafted a big bust with Justin Harrell. He also didn't sign anybody in free agency to at least compete or be depth. He could of gone out and got another player to improve the defense and he didn't. It's his judgment to make and one that he failed at. That's the responsibility Thompson needs to take for this.

On the flip side. Why are Johnny Jolley and Ryan Pickett playing much more poorly this year than last year?

I think that's on Bob Sanders and those players.

It leads back to my original point that this problem with the defensive line and the defense in general is bigger than just one person. You win as a team and you lose as a team. Pinpointing just Ted Thompson or just Bob Sanders or just the players would be a mistake in my opinion. Hopefully Thompson accepts this and changes his approach and perhaps works with McCarthy into changing the approach of the defense. The only way that can be done is if you change schemes and that means changing coordinators.
brnt247
16 years ago
What player? Which defensive tackle was there to be signed that was willing to be the 4th option? I say 4th because Jenkins was back and forth between tackle and defensive end. I understand your point, but it isn't as if there was a plethra of decent to good defensive tackles on the market last season that were willing to be backups. Harrell's job was to fill in, and because of injuries he hasn't been able to do so. I can't blame that on Thompson.
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macbob
16 years ago

I'm still not especially keen on Sanders as DC, but there are major personnel problems with the defense this year, as explained in this article. I did not realize that only 5 of our last 20 draft picks have been defensive players:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20081209/PKR07/81209184/1058/PKR01&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL 

"macbob" wrote:



Yeah, but Vandermause is conveniently picking his years to support his argument. The two preceding years (2005/2006) 12 of the 23 draft picks were defensive players, and there were two other defensive players acquired through draft-day/draft-pick trades, so we acquired a total of 14 defensive players out of 25 total during Thompson's first two drafts. Add them all up, and you've got 19 out of 45 picks went to defense in Thompson's first 4 drafts.

"Greg C." wrote:




Nice catch. But the lack of talent on the defensive line is obvious, regardless of the reasons for it. I still like our DB's and LB's, and I think this defense would be much better with a couple more quality players on the line.

"macbob" wrote:



Yeah, I agree, but that was more due to a wasted 1st rd draft pick rather than neglect. Thompson expected Harrell to step up and replace Corey Williams, and all he's done is replace Cletidus Hunt.

"Greg C." wrote:



Great. And now Hunt...er, Harrell looks to be injured once again. When you draft someone with the 16th pick in round 1, you expect the guy to be a starter immediately (else why did you draft him that high???). Here we are two years later, and we're still having trouble getting him on the field, much less a starter.

With his injury history in College (leg surgery, ankle injuries, biceps surgery that cost him all but 3 games of his senior season) Harrell was a risky pick that has no where near come through to paying off. At the time the pick was widely questioned, and as time as passed it appears appropriately so.
Greg C.
16 years ago

Why are Johnny Jolley and Ryan Pickett playing much more poorly this year than last year?

I think that's on Bob Sanders and those players.

"porky88" wrote:



That's a great question. I've been wondering about that all year. Pickett missed all of training camp, so I was expecting him to have a slow start, which he did. He's improved a bit as the season has gone on, but is still not playing as well as he did last year. And Johnny Jolly seems like just another guy this year. He's not making nearly as many plays as he used to. Could the legal troubles be distracting him?

I think that at least part of the problem is the loss of Cullen Jenkins and KGB. That right DE position is no longer a pass rushing threat, and it's made it a lot easier for opposing offensive lines to block everyone else.
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brnt247
16 years ago
It has to do with the rotation. Having a rotation like we did last year gave the lineman like Pickett and Jolly the ability to rest and be fresh when the entered the game. This season we have to rely on those two so much because they are really our only quality tackles. Cole isn't that awful, he doesn't make great plays but to be honest I think our team gets beat on outside runs more often than on the inside ones.
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Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Zero, regarding Woodson, that'd why I find the timing with Williams peculiar
dfosterf (15-May) : Ryan Hall y'all does a great job of tracking thesr
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Fear not!! I planned to do 33mi bike ride tomorrow morning, so ... yeah
Zero2Cool (15-May) : We got some dark clouds and nasty winds right bout now.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Madison they had hail 4pm.
dfosterf (15-May) : Sure looks like these tornadoes are headed towards Green Bay
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Woodson of Charles fame was reluctant and then loved it. that didn't really come out until post career
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : IE "We bought into the Bears and they let us down, we have no choice to seek alternatives"
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Or that Williams and his family are preparing an exit ramp if they don't like how things are going in a few years
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Either Williams thought it would make him look good (reluctant but then embraces the city and franchise)
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : I can only assume that the Williams camp agreed to cooperate with that article tells me 2 things
dfosterf (15-May) : Ya. They are in a great mood
Zero2Cool (15-May) : I should visit again
dfosterf (15-May) : ChiCity Sports entering freakout mode due to Caleb and his dad not wanting him to go there
Zero2Cool (15-May) : "He's looking really good out there," Derrick Ansley said of Kalen King. Adds that he's been playing inside and out.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Him saying he doesn't have one to give haha
Zero2Cool (15-May) : True, that was awesome. The whole F thing was great actually.
dfosterf (15-May) : I did like the Mark Murphy part, sorta
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Some comments on it saying it was great, amazing... I came away thinking... awkward.
dfosterf (15-May) : Packers schedule release video is "interesting" I guess.
Zero2Cool (15-May) : SOOO glad that tool still works. Saves from manually entering each game
Zero2Cool (15-May) : NFL Pick'em import was done last night.
Mucky Tundra (15-May) : Atlanta with 5 primetime games lol
Zero2Cool (15-May) : Week Five BYE?? NFL is hell.
wpr (14-May) : Vikings schedule leaked. Week 12 in GB. Week 18 in MN.
wpr (14-May) : CBS has GB @ NYG Week 11 Nov 16 and they will face MN in week 18 but don't say where. I think away
Zero2Cool (14-May) : W15: Packers at Broncos
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Ben Sirmans on MarShawn Lloyd: “Everything’s full go for him.”
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Luke Butkus says training camp will allow plenty of time to implement new center Elgton Jenkins
Zero2Cool (14-May) : wk 2 commanders at packers
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Ugh. Packers thanksgiving detroit ...boring
Zero2Cool (14-May) : Panthers at Green Bay in week 9, Nov 2nd
buckeyepackfan (14-May) : Week 1
buckeyepackfan (14-May) : Packers Host Detroit Week 1! ML finally gets a week home opener.
beast (13-May) : I was kind of hoping Douglas might come back to the Pack
beast (13-May) : My question is how much do we trust Jenkins? In bad weather, he seemed to struggle a bit with ball control snapping, though he started at OG
beast (13-May) : Well Jenkins probably knows he's not getting that 2026 salary number without a new contact... so just trying to get the new contact early
Zero2Cool (13-May) : CB Rasul Douglas is visiting the #Seahawks today, per source.
dfosterf (13-May) : He's a switch and baiter. Its the same as a bait and switcher except he agreed to the switch first lol
dfosterf (13-May) : 6.8 mil raise next year. Those are existing contract numbers
dfosterf (13-May) : 12.8 plus 4.8 pro rata signing bonus is 17.6 mil. Top center in the league at 18
Zero2Cool (13-May) : Elgton Jenkins wants to rework contract ahead of position change to center
Zero2Cool (13-May) : 🏈Monday, Nov. 10: Eagles at Packers
buckeyepackfan (12-May) : Packers @ Bears week 16(Saturday Game)
Zero2Cool (12-May) : Clifford hasn't been the same since losing 8
dfosterf (12-May) : Sean Clifford would probably disagree
dfosterf (12-May) : Canuck Cannon. Got a very good feeling about this
Zero2Cool (12-May) : Tom Pelissero also reports what bboy stated
bboystyle (12-May) : The Green Bay Packers on Monday signed Taylor Elgersma, the Canadian-born quarterback who tried out at the team’s rookie camp last weekend
beast (12-May) : There were reports four days ago that the Packers were signing QB Taylor Elgersma, but no official action since
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