Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
I'm probably not (quite) as negative as Foster, but I'm not a great fan of the pick.

To my mind, Perry has some to offer, but he's mid- to late-second talent. If he was the best available at 28, they should have traded down. (And Tampa trading their 36 to Denver after the Packer's pick says there was an opportunity out there.)

Oh well. At least its not Ahmad Carroll or John Michels.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
evad04
13 years ago

I'm probably not (quite) as negative as Foster, but I'm not a great fan of the pick.

To my mind, Perry has some to offer, but he's mid- to late-second talent. If he was the best available at 28, they should have traded down. (And Tampa trading their 36 to Denver after the Packer's pick says there was an opportunity out there.)



Originally Posted by: Wade 



Honestly, what does Green Bay have to gain from trading down in a draft that they have 12 picks? I suppose it gets them more ammunition to move up in later rounds. Outside of them not getting the player you want, I don't understand trading down (on the basis that stockpiling picks is unnecessary when you have a truckload of picks already).
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
+2
lolleren
13 years ago

Honestly, what does Green Bay have to gain from trading down in a draft that they have 12 picks? I suppose it gets them more ammunition to move up in later rounds. Outside of them not getting the player you want, I don't understand trading down (on the basis that stockpiling picks is unnecessary when you have a truckload of picks already).

Originally Posted by: evad04 



In the end i guess its about value, the chances of the pick being a pro bowler, starter, rotational player drops throughout the rounds, if you look at your board and say:" this guy is the one we ratest highest, and we think he is the best bet we have of getting a pro bowler, but in the end we believe his value is around one round too early" so if we trade back one round we will get extra shots at the crapshoot that is the draft, and we will be able to draft a guy where the value, ei chance of succes fits the pick we have.



Is there any chance he comes in as a 3-4 D-End to replace Cullen Jenkins? What made us successful in 2010 was the fact we had a great pass rushing 3-4 DE (he was a good all-round player). All he needs to do is add some weight.

Originally Posted by: stevegb 


I dont believe so, he might put his hands in the dirt on passing downs, but i doubt he will from our base. I dont know if he has that inside pass rush ability that made Jenkins so valueable.
blank
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

Honestly, what does Green Bay have to gain from trading down in a draft that they have 12 picks? I suppose it gets them more ammunition to move up in later rounds. Outside of them not getting the player you want, I don't understand trading down (on the basis that stockpiling picks is unnecessary when you have a truckload of picks already).

Originally Posted by: evad04 



IMO, trading down means the ability to get more picks in rounds 2, 3, 4, and early 5, either directly or by packaging later picks to trade back up. And IMO rounds 2-early-5 is where this draft is going to be made.

If you think that Perry is truly first round material, which you and Ted Thompson and most people do, then that benefit is not important. But I don't. I think he's second round quality, and mid- to late-2nd at that. If they miss on Perry by trading down, IMO there are lots of players still on the board that are going to give equivalent value in the early- to- mid-second. Especially since there are also lots of intriguing possibilities for pass rush help between rounds 2 and early 5.

To me, putting the pass rushing eggs in the Perry basket is akin to saying Mike Neal is going to fill Cullen Jenkins shoes. Or, in another context, thinking Daryn Colledge will be sufficient to solve the problems the Packers had at OG before his arrival.

Perry at this point is like multiple players still on the board -- "serious potential plus some questions." If you're drafting at #28, that's likely what you have to choose from. And when you are limited to "serious potential plus questions," better to seek more early/mid-round picks.

Especially when, as IMO this draft is, the draft is strongest especially in those early- to mid-rounds.

That's why I wanted a trade down. Not because Perry in particular is worse than the alternatives (though I liked Branch better) -- but because I didn't think there was a 28-quality pick left. (Well, I thought Doug Martin was 28-quality; but IMO the Packers' needs are sufficiently serious that it would have been dumb to spend 28 on a RB.)

If you use $35 to buy a $25 steak, you don't get to have that $10 shrimp cocktail,


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago



Denver picks higher in every round than the Packers, therefore, it's not certain there was an opportunity for the Packers to trade back. Perhaps the Buccaneers didn't want to trade back with a NFC team?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



No, the fact that Denver made a trade meant there was an opportunity. The particulars of draft position only meant that there might not have been an opportunity "good enough" from the Packers point of view. The Packers have picks before the ones Denver used. If Tampa was willing to trade with Denver for what they did trade, they likely would have been willing to take one of those higher Packer ones. I doubt "NFC partner" is as worrisome as "Division partner" in a potential trade.

Trade was possible.

And IMO any trade enabling an extra late fourth (or even maybe early fifth) would have been enough IMO to make the trade a good idea in this particular draft.

Because to me, Perry was no better than mid-2nd value. And based on what's available right now, I think getting mid-2nd pass rush/OLB/DE value is going to be possible mid-2nd value regardless of whether Perry goes earlier to someone else. Indeed, I think there's a real good likelihood that that mid-2nd pass rush/OLB/DE value will still be available at 59.

Add an extra late fourth to the ability to grab not just one, but two, of these and IMO you ensure yourself (with 2 2's, a 3, and 4 4ths) a better draft than spending #28 on Perry:
Ta'amu, Kendricks, Reyes, R. Lewis, Silatolu, Josh Robinson, Markelle Martin, Curry, Konz, Brandon Thompson, Glenn, Branch. And starting with Tyrone Crawford,the Utah State guy, and Wolfe, there's lots of real 3rd-4th possibilities for substantial pass-rush help out there. (Not to mention my person super-sleeper candidate, Adrian Hamilton, who will probably be available outside my "2nd-mid-fifth" requirement.)

The Packers need substantial help with pass rush, absolutely no doubt about that. So I'm not going to whine forever about the Perry pick. That "potential" does have a high ceiling, after all.

But I do think the Packers could have done more another way.





And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
The fact Denver traded means nothing to the Packers. You think Denver wanted to trade back for the sake of trading back or more so trading back to find a partner that helped them? Don't be silly!!!

I'm glad pass rush was addressed in round one. I think the Packers need a Center as well. HOWEVER, I am of the belief that you can find a solid Center easier than a solid Pass Rush specialist in the later rounds.



BTW, Packers are discussing with the Cleveland Browns regarding acquiring my boy Colt McCoy.




UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

Dudes.

Things don't always work out the way you want and there's no guarantees. But if Ted Thompson took him, there was a reason. And that is good enough for me. Godspeed, Perry. Get to those fuckin' QB's and give our corners a chance this year!

Originally Posted by: TwinkieGorilla 



Oh, gee. What the fuck's the point of paying attention to the draft if we don't grump from time to time.

I mean, come on, Ted always does things for a reason. And yes, that ring means we should trust him to make the right decisions most of the time.

But most is not all. He can, and has, made mistakes. He can, and will, make more mistakes. And just because we are "just fans", doesn't mean we should lay off when we think he is doing so.

Should Ted Thompson give a rat's ass about what I think? Of course not. And I completely trust him to care less about what I says.

But I'm still going to grump. IMO he should have traded down this time.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

The fact Denver traded means nothing to the Packers. You think Denver wanted to trade back for the sake of trading back or more so trading back to find a partner that helped them? Don't be silly!!!

I'm glad pass rush was addressed in round one. I think the Packers need a Center as well. HOWEVER, I am of the belief that you can find a solid Center easier than a solid Pass Rush specialist in the later rounds.



BTW, Packers are discussing with the Cleveland Browns regarding acquiring my boy Colt McCoy.




Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


Of course what Denver did means nothing. All I said is that the fact that Denver traded means that there was likely an opportunity for the Packers to trade.

I understood you to say that "maybe there was no possible trading partner for the packers out there." My opinion is that Tampa being willing to trade with Denver means there was very likely someone (Tampa) willing to trade with GB at terms *I* would have found "worth it".

Obviously, there was no one willing to trade at terms Ted Thompson found worth it. If there were, there would have been a trade. There wasn't.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Of course what Denver did means nothing. All I said is that the fact that Denver traded means that there was likely an opportunity for the Packers to trade.

I understood you to say that "maybe there was no possible trading partner for the packers out there." My opinion is that Tampa being willing to trade with Denver means there was very likely someone (Tampa) willing to trade with GB at terms *I* would have found "worth it".

Obviously, there was no one willing to trade at terms Ted Thompson found worth it. If there were, there would have been a trade. There wasn't.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I'm saying the Packers (obviously since they used the pick) felt that the 28th overall selection was better served to them being used on Nick Perry than trading.

As for you not caring what Ted Thompson thinks about what you think, how dare you? Who the hell you think you are, a fan or something??

UserPostedImage
evad04
13 years ago

To me, putting the pass rushing eggs in the Perry basket is akin to saying Mike Neal is going to fill Cullen Jenkins shoes. Or, in another context, thinking Daryn Colledge will be sufficient to solve the problems the Packers had at OG before his arrival.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Thanks for the detailed response. I see where you are coming from now. That said, I personally wouldn't liken Perry at OLB to Mike Neal filling Jenkins' shoes. All Perry has to do to make an impact is take snaps from the likes of Erik Walden and Frank Zombo. Most of us had a pretty good idea of what we'd be losing when Jenkins went to Philly. I think, likewise, most of us know what we have in Walden/Zombo -- and it's not much. Serviceable at best, but weak enough to make pass-rushing OLB arguably our greatest area of need going into the draft. That's why Perry has me excited.
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"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
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