Packers_Finland
13 years ago

Jerel Worthy if he is there.. Peter Konz is another choice. Personally I would like to shore up our interior pressure on defense... Worthy would do that.. not a ever snap player but a beast of a player. Raji and him paired up.. ouch.

Then Worthy went and had a great pro day.. screwed it up possibly. lol.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I absolutely believe we HAVE to get a 3-4 OLB with our first pick and there most definitely will be a suitable player avaivable. Nick Perry, or failing that, Andre Branch. Failing that Vinny Curry. All three fit the range we're picking in.

As much as added interior pressure helps, we have to make sure we have exterior pressure first.
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Pack93z
13 years ago

I absolutely believe we HAVE to get a 3-4 OLB with our first pick and there most definitely will be a suitable player available. Nick Perry, or failing that, Andre Branch. Failing that Vinny Curry. All three fit the range we're picking in.

As much as added interior pressure helps, we have to make sure we have exterior pressure first.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



I will disagree, the best and most effective way to open up the overall pressure applied to a passer is to bring pressure from the inside. By do that, you shift protection to the shortest route and allow your edge rushers, not to mention your interior blitz packages, to open up into one on one battles and further more, your tackles will have a read to make and will provide a softer edge for your players to attack.

Thus you can make it easier for the edge players in which you can survive with serviceable players in place of blue chip talent.

The trick is there aren't a good number of 3-4 downs that can supply pressure from the interior.. if you get a shot at one, you take it and hold it.

The Steelers, for example, are going to start to see just how important a Smith was on the interior of that line; just as we seen with Jenkins last season. Interior pressure is the ultimate disruptive force.. while it can be done with perimeter pass rush, it takes a pair of blue chippers on the edge to get it done; it still allows for a passer to step into a pocket and throw the ball.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
13 years ago
I can name loads and loads of teams that have had dominant pass rushes with studs on the edge and only serviceable guys on the inside. Many more than I, you, or anyone else for that matter could name teams that had domintant inside guys, and only serviceable guys on the edge, and still have a dominant pass rush. Having both would be the obvious ideal solution.

As for the Steelers, Aaron Smith has missed a ton of games in the last few years, yet the output of Woodley and Harrison has remained largely unchanged... so I kind of think your point regarding that is invalid.
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PackerTraxx
13 years ago
I believe we have a good shot at getting an OLB with the first pick. Some how I hope we can also get a DE that can pressure. Then Raji can stay in the middle and get pressure there, which he has shown he can do.
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Pack93z
13 years ago

I can name loads and loads of teams that have had dominant pass rushes with studs on the edge and only serviceable guys on the inside. Many more than I, you, or anyone else for that matter could name teams that had domintant inside guys, and only serviceable guys on the edge, and still have a dominant pass rush. Having both would be the obvious ideal solution.

As for the Steelers, Aaron Smith has missed a ton of games in the last few years, yet the output of Woodley and Harrison has remained largely unchanged... so I kind of think your point regarding that is invalid.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



Albeit I was focused on 3-4 defensive alignments.. we can expand this further into 4-3 alignments as well.

First.. define dominate pass rushes from a team aspect, name the last one?

IMO, There hasn't been a dominate pass rush team in the league for a number of years. There are particular players (Ware, Derrick Thomas, Allen, Freeney, Strahan for examples) but nothing close a dominate pass rush. Blitzburg for example hasn't been the same since Smith and Hampton have fallen off some.. sure Keisel has stepped in, but IMO, he isn't the same type of player that a (healthy) Smith was to the Steelers.

Some of that is from free agent parity, some of that is the game has changed.

The closest thing to a dominate pass rush last season was the Giants, Ravens and the 49ers (not sacks but affect on QBs and the offense), what did both have, guys that could pressure from inside where it truly disrupts an offense. If you can get a pass rush up the middle, it forces the offense to move the pocket. For most QB's that limits the amount of the field that is available to them... thus giving the defense the advantage back.

Where as edge pressure, you can help scheme against it to minimize the effectiveness of it.. chips, reducing the QB's drop, having the tackles push the rusher up the field.. in these scenarios most of the field is still available to the QB and offense and reduces the advantage the pressure gives the defense.

IMO, a "stud" pass rusher, one whom can truly create pressure on his own in an array of ways, is rare in either spot.. inside or out. IMO, Worthy is the type of kid that can cause interior pressure on an offense.

In a 3-4, interior pressure is gold, see the other Smith (Justin) and just how important he was to the Niners. Or Jenkins to us and how it exposed our lack of pass rush from the edge with developing players.

Look.. I agree with you.. it is more common to find edge pass rushers who flash on speed alone and eventually get figured out. But I will disagree that it is a more effective pressure to generate and how it affects the offense.

I would settle for edge pressure if that is all that is there.. but I think enough of Worthy in watching him in the Big Ten yearly that he can supply what I deem as more effective pressure, what expands the blitz calls for a Defensive Coordinator and what boosts the overall effectiveness of the players around them.. interior pressure.

That was my point.. not quantity, but the affect it has on an offense. I wish we could ask a QB..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
13 years ago
I agree with most of what you said. A truly dominant pass rush will have both great inside and outside guys (though I would disagree on the Giants part as Canty was very overrated and Linval Joseph was a liability up the middle. JPP, Tuck, Umenyiora and Kiwanuka made that pass rush purely off the edge).

But, to fix our 3-4 pass rush right now, I think it would be more important to get an OLB first, DE second. I'm not saying we don't need both, but that OLB is by far the more pressing need. And that is simply because I feel a first round pick would be a considerably larger improvement over Walden/Jones/Zombo than over Neal/Wilson/Wynn. I would rather not have any of those guys starting, but if I had to eliminate one group of guys from seeing the field and replacing him with a stud, it would be the OLBs.

As for Worthy, well yeah, he's going to be higher on the board (deservedly) than any OLB we would see at that point. But it would be like saying the Dolphins would rather take Luck than Tannehill, there's no choice since that guy isn't going to be there.
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wpr
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13 years ago
I have to give the nod to Pack93. You get a big boy on the DL who crumbles the OL and gets his hand in the face of the QB and even I can cover the receiver.

OLB is a need. DL is a "bigger" need.
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Pack93z
13 years ago



As for Worthy, well yeah, he's going to be higher on the board (deservedly) than any OLB we would see at that point. But it would be like saying the Dolphins would rather take Luck than Tannehill, there's no choice since that guy isn't going to be there.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



I have seen the draft rating on Worthy anywhere from a 1st to 3rd round.. all I am saying is if he slips, damn skippy you draft him. I think the biggest knock is his conditioning and the number of snaps he can take in a game. MSU didn't pull him out because they wanted to.. he had to come to the sideline and rest a little more often than others.

Examples..

CBS 27th player  on the board.

Your site.. Walter  not in the first round.

ESPN 32  on the big board.

CNNSI 25th  to Denver.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
13 years ago
I give much more credibility to Mike Mayock saying he will be drafted before the 25th pick than any of those guys.

All that said, I'd rather take Andre Branch at our pick if he's avaivable than Jerel Worthy. But Worthy would definitely not be a bad pick. I believe we'll fix this team's pass rush better in the short-term with a first round OLB than a first round DE. Long-term, who knows really.
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Pack93z
13 years ago

I give much more credibility to Mike Mayock saying he will be drafted before the 25th pick than any of those guys.

Originally Posted by: Packers_Finland 



Mayock  has him as the 4th rated tackle in the draft.. with Still rising at 5..

Worthy had a great pro day which drew attention.. and yes probably has him off the board by our pick.

The guy that has me wondering is Dontari Poe.... he posts great workout numbers but his production on the field doesn't mesh with that consistently. Is he that workout bust or a player just hitting his stride?

Another concern with those edge rushers coming out.. seems like there is a higher number that bust out rather than boom. IMO, speed fools at the college level.. makes those edge guys flash more on tape.

For ever Miller there seems to be a handful fulls of Maybin's, Aaron Curry's and Golston's to match.

In the end.. I careless how they address the concern of pass rush this season.. just fill it and go.


I just know how I would prefer it. 😉
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
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