Smokey
  • Smokey
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
4 years ago
GB's GM Brian Gutekunst, in consultation with HC LaFleur, have chosen to use the Packers 3rd selection of the 2020 NFL Draft to take Josiah Deguara (TE) out of Cincinnati. Some say that he is undersized for a TE in the NFL. At 6'2" and 242 lbs, he ran a 4.72 sec. time in the 40 yard dash and impressed by lifting 25 / 225 bench press reps at the recent combine.

OK, he's not the WR many were hoping for or is he? With the Bearcats he was used as something of a universal solder that could be found lining up at FB or as a Slot Receiver, or TE, and as a Wide Out Receiver as well. For the Packers I can see him as the very tough TE/Slot Receiver that can bear up to taking those hits for catches over the middle better than a faster(and less beefy) more standard WR. TEs don't always have to be 6'6" and weigh 285 lbs. to be effective. Jace Sternberger is slightly larger at 6'4" and 251 lbs., but was praised for his blocking skills when drafted out of Texas A&M. The two of them may just develop into the Dynamic TE Duo that will change the thinking about the TE position moving forward!

I choose to see the glass as half full rather than half empty. As for WRs, there is still time to trade, draft, and acquire FA WRs. Gutekunst is fully aware of the needs ar WR and OT and LB. I seen to remember last year how nervous some got before TWO fellows named Smith came to play for GB. Show some patience before you reach for mud to throw.

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Nonstopdrivel
4 years ago
This is kind of eye opening:

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I'd feel better about it if the Packers had the same caliber of line as the 49ers. On the other hand, with the addition of Dillon, the Packers might now have the edge in the running back department.
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Nonstopdrivel
4 years ago



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Nonstopdrivel
4 years ago

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all_about_da_packers
4 years ago

I choose to see the glass as half full rather than half empty. As for WRs, there is still time to trade, draft, and acquire FA WRs. Gutekunst is fully aware of the needs Aaron Rodgers WR and OT and LB. I seen to remember last year how nervous some got before TWO fellows named Smith came to play for GB. Show some patience before you reach for mud to throw.

Originally Posted by: Smokey 



I'll add to the 'glass half full' view: after the season ended, I was struck by Aaron Rodgers suggesting the Packers weren't equipped to run no-huddle - partly due to lack of experience and also due to personnel. The last part really confused me - maybe Aaron was hinting the WRs were largely idiots who couldn't pick-up the scheme? It makes more sense after the first 2 nights of the draft that Aaron was saying that a lack of personnel limited LaFleur from implementing his true offense.

I think this draft shows us that the Packers didn't have versatile enough pieces to run a no-huddle / quick tempo offense under LaFleur's scheme. It seems like LaFleur wants bigger bodies capable of lining up in 2-TE, 1-TE 1-Half Back, 2-RB, and bunch formations which also facilitate motion. In other words, like Gutey said tonight: everything works off the run game in LaFleur's scheme. A RB and a TE you can line up as FB, have stand-up in bunch formation, or be the 2nd TE with his hand down... seems like the 3rd round pick Deguara fits that bill.

Which brings me to the broader issue I think so many Packer fans are having in this draft: they are viewing it in light of a McCarthy scheme / game-plan. Under a Mike McCarthy scheme, I would be the first to be all doom and gloom at these pics; but McCarthy isn't the coach anymore. Under LaFleur's scheme, these picks ... might not be too bad.

A RB tandem of Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon on the field at the same time? A 2-TE formation with Sternberger and Deguara, or 3-TE with Mercedes Lewis? Have a TE line up as a full back and motion out to the slot or out wide? Have Lazard, who few have suggested be a TE, chip in with his blocking? Bunch formation where you have 3-4 above-average blockers who are thicccc, can sustain blocks and might be more difficult to bring down even if not the fastest? Force defenses to commit to stopping the run, giving 'Tae more 1-on-1 match-ups? Motion Jones or Dillon (assuming he is under the radar in the passing game) to the slot or out wide to force a LB-RB mismatch? These are only a handful of possibilities we now have.

I'm intrigued because some of our best in-rhythm games on offense came when 'Tae was out injured last year. It now seems like LaFleur has more pieces that fit his vision - and I'm intrigued. If nothing else, he has at least helped limit the exposure of Rodgers to big-hits even if not drafting a RT.

As for all the calls of "Packers haven't addressed any of their weaknesses at OL/DL/CB/LB/WR" ... I'll point out that Jared Veldheer (RT), Snacks Harrison (DL), Tramon Williams (CB), and Clay Mathews (LB) are all still available as free agents. Not saying we sign all of these vets, but Gutey has intriguing possibilities on the free-agent market to not force a need-driven selection. I'm surprised we haven't drafted a WR yet, but then again maybe I'm also viewing it from the 'McCarthy scheme' lens - maybe LaFleur's scheme can be run well with what we currently have and some competition to round out the position group can be had in rounds 5-7. Also, interested to see how the team utilizes Tyler Ervin on offense - I can't imagine he gets many snaps at RB but maybe as a gadget WR?

So, not all doom and gloom from my perspective. But really interested to see the scheme and plays being run in pre-season.



The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
Mucky Tundra
4 years ago

Which brings me to the broader issue I think so many Packer fans are having in this draft: they are viewing it in light of a McCarthy scheme / game-plan. Under a Mike McCarthy scheme, I would be the first to be all doom and gloom at these pics; but McCarthy isn't the coach anymore. Under LaFleur's scheme, these picks ... might not be too bad.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 



I think this is the best way to sum up how a lot of people feel about this draft (well, more so rounds 2+3). People want the old spread offense, with Rodgers in the shotgun with 4 or 5 wideouts and slinging the ball around. To use a boxing analogy, the early McCarthy offenses were like a boxer that relied on sheer power that wore opponents out with constant power punches and finally delivered a crushing KO to the chin. MLFs offense is more a technician: constant jabs, working the body, protecting the chin and only going for a KO when you're ahead on the judges scorecards and the opponents gloves start to drop. I think a lot of people are on board with the idea of a more methodical offense but need time to be weaned off the old one.
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beast
4 years ago

I'll add to the 'glass half full' view: after the season ended, I was struck by Aaron Rodgers suggesting the Packers weren't equipped to run no-huddle - partly due to lack of experience and also due to personnel. The last part really confused me - maybe Aaron was hinting the WRs were largely idiots who couldn't pick-up the scheme? It makes more sense after the first 2 nights of the draft that Aaron was saying that a lack of personnel limited LaFleur from implementing his true offense.

I think this draft shows us that the Packers didn't have versatile enough pieces to run a no-huddle / quick tempo offense under LaFleur's scheme. It seems like LaFleur wants bigger bodies capable of lining up in 2-TE, 1-TE 1-Half Back, 2-RB, and bunch formations which also facilitate motion. In other words, like Gutey said tonight: everything works off the run game in LaFleur's scheme. A RB and a TE you can line up as FB, have stand-up in bunch formation, or be the 2nd TE with his hand down... seems like the 3rd round pick Deguara fits that bill.

Which brings me to the broader issue I think so many Packer fans are having in this draft: they are viewing it in light of a McCarthy scheme / game-plan. Under a Mike McCarthy scheme, I would be the first to be all doom and gloom at these pics; but McCarthy isn't the coach anymore. Under LaFleur's scheme, these picks ... might not be too bad.

A RB tandem of Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon on the field at the same time? A 2-TE formation with Sternberger and Deguara, or 3-TE with Mercedes Lewis? Have a TE line up as a full back and motion out to the slot or out wide? Have Lazard, who few have suggested be a TE, chip in with his blocking? Bunch formation where you have 3-4 above-average blockers who are thicccc, can sustain blocks and might be more difficult to bring down even if not the fastest? Force defenses to commit to stopping the run, giving 'Tae more 1-on-1 match-ups? Motion Jones or Dillon (assuming he is under the radar in the passing game) to the slot or out wide to force a LB-RB mismatch? These are only a handful of possibilities we now have.

I'm intrigued because some of our best in-rhythm games on offense came when 'Tae was out injured last year. It now seems like LaFleur has more pieces that fit his vision - and I'm intrigued. If nothing else, he has at least helped limit the exposure of Rodgers to big-hits even if not drafting a RT.

As for all the calls of "Packers haven't addressed any of their weaknesses at OL/DL/CB/LB/WR" ... I'll point out that Jared Veldheer (RT), Snacks Harrison (DL), Tramon Williams (CB), and Clay Mathews (LB) are all still available as free agents. Not saying we sign all of these vets, but Gutey has intriguing possibilities on the free-agent market to not force a need-driven selection. I'm surprised we haven't drafted a WR yet, but then again maybe I'm also viewing it from the 'McCarthy scheme' lens - maybe LaFleur's scheme can be run well with what we currently have and some competition to round out the position group can be had in rounds 5-7. Also, interested to see how the team utilizes Tyler Ervin on offense - I can't imagine he gets many snaps at RB but maybe as a gadget WR?

So, not all doom and gloom from my perspective. But really interested to see the scheme and plays being run in pre-season.

Originally Posted by: all_about_da_packers 


1) Great freaking post!

2) I wouldn't we're necessarily looking at it from MM's scheme, but that of a usually or average scheme would all suggest that the 2nd WR is more valuable, but you're absolutely right in this offense the large slot guy is very valuable and with our two 3rd round TE picks, we basically have a TE and large slot guys between the two and they can be interchange and keep the defense off guard.

3) I'm convinced that the Packers offense was more successful without Adams had a lot more to do with the poor defenses we faced then (and Chiefs were badly banged up), then anything to do with Adams.

4) Back to this scheme, I think this scheme has 3 really key guys, the

QB, which is extremely valuable in today's NFL
RB, which this scheme makes a focal point to keep the pressure off the QB, since all defenses are looking to put maximum pressure on QBs.
Large Slot WR: 49ers have George Kittle and Rams have Cooper Kupp and they're stars in those times and we could see one of our TEs becoming stars in a very similar way.

4) Also talking about your Rodgers comment that we didn't have the verstile personal, this offense also has a blocker, which is largely how these offenses are all different (that and the slow role).

49ers use a FB for blocking and TE Kittle for the large slot role.

Rams use a TE for blocking and WR Cooper Kupp for the large slot role.

There was questions about how the Packers were going to handle this, my only assumption has been Graham as the large slot WR (cus he's not a WR or blocker).

And I don't know how WR/TE Devin Funchess fits I to this, but he's in a I e year deal.

But the Packers now have TEs Sternberger and Deguara for muliple years and they can do both the blocking role and the large slot role and even switch back and forth from play to play.
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Cheesey
4 years ago
If the WRs we already have can improve GREATLY over last season, maybe not getting one of the “great” WR prospects that we kept hearing about won’t end up killing us.
We have bodies, but can they do what is needed? Time will tell.
I wonder if getting the new RB will spell “so long” to Williams?

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beast
4 years ago

If the WRs we already have can improve GREATLY over last season, maybe not getting one of the “great” WR prospects that we kept hearing about won’t end up killing us.
We have bodies, but can they do what is needed? Time will tell.
I wonder if getting the new RB will spell “so long” to Williams?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

Maybe so long Dexter Williams...

The WRs won't improve greatly other than maybe MVS, Lazzard might come close to maximuming his skill set, but he has physical limitations.

It's the TEs that might improve because they might grow, and they fit the scheme better than Graham (cus they block and catch).


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Nonstopdrivel
4 years ago

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