Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Chargers had 7 20+ yard passes (and another 2 that went 19 yds). 3 in the 1Q, 1 in 3Q, 3 in the 4Q. 19 yd completions were 3Q & 4Q.

Total yards/Q:
170 yds 1Q (2 TDs); 29 yds 2Q (1 FG); 84 yds 3Q (1 TD); 172 yds 4Q (2 TDs).

Outside of the turnovers, we stopped them twice and made them punt. 3 times, if you include the FG. The ther 5 drives, they scored TDs.

Too many guys getting wide open in the secondary, and too many guys getting wide open behind everyone in the secondary.

On the plus side, we're 1/2 through the season and have 8 more games to straighten things out before the playoffs.

Originally Posted by: macbob 


How about the other 7 games. One example doesn't prove or disprove anything.

A significant percentage of the QBs we have played are not as good as Breeze.

Collins is missed in is communication and understanding of the D as much as his play making. But the line isn't suffering as much as people say it is.

I can think of 3 games where we fell behind and the D held the other team down long enough to build 3 score leads.

You would also be remiss in neglecting the turnovers as being part of the D effort. They deffinately stopped the Saints. They should be counted as stops.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
porky88
13 years ago

Sacks are not as important as pressure. They are getting a lot of pressure. That is forcing a lot of interceptions. We are not bad in sacks. Kind of middle of the NFL. But we are around the top in pressure.

I think a lot of the problem is perception. Not actually a problem.

When the Opponents come out with a scripted drive that is designed to exploit Capers scheme and jumps out to an early lead, even when we followed that up with a gaff that cost us even more points given up. The D shuts down the opponents long enough to not only get us back, but pull ahead by 2-3 scores. Sometime more than a 21 point turn around. We go into the second half pulling away and end up in prevent with a big lead.

I think a lot of the yards and points given up are after they have that huge lead.

The D seems to be able to step up and shut down opponents when they have to. Like the end of the Charger game when the O couldn't run out the clock on back to back possessions. The D stepped up and got a critical stop and a pick on back to back possessions.

If the D is under pressure more, they probably put up a lot better numbers. But I would prefer a D that is ranked in the middle of the NFL in scoring if it means we are always playing with a big lead.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 


I do agree that the numbers are misleading. Green Bay isn’t the 31st best pass defense in the NFL. Offenses are playing catch up early because the Packer offense scores so early in games. That's all true. However, this defense isn’t as good as it was last season and you can point toward the rush and secondary communication as the two key problems. The latter is correctable as the year progresses in my opinion. I’m not sure about the former, though.

Yes, Green Bay is getting hits on QBs, but they aren’t disrupting the play. That's what Jenkins did so well. He would disrupt the play or force the QB out of his comfort level. Right now, QBs are completing too many long passes. Furthermore, most of the pressure is schemed and not lining up and just beating a guy one on one. They need a presence along the DL that can disrupt the backfield by just whipping the lineman in front of him. For what it's worth, I believe Mike Neal has that in him.
wpr
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13 years ago
While I love int and turning them into a pick 6 I am genuinely concerned when the team leans too heavily on them. They distort what is really going on. Over the years I have seen too many int that were not because of great coverage but because the ball was tipped or the QB just threw a horrible pass. If the defender had been in the correct position he would not have gotten the ball. (Tipped passes to the #2 or 3 defender are not an issue.)

The other problem I see happening is the mentality of wanting the int instead of defending the play. It leads to the defender biting on the play fakes and getting out of position. We are seeing more of that this year than in the past. It is similar to a baseball player trying to hit a home run in every at bat. I don't care for either of them.
The backs need to be consistent. Cover the receiver. Defend the pass. Then when they are in position a few times a year make the int instead of going for the big play and getting beat.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

While I love int and turning them into a pick 6 I am genuinely concerned when the team leans too heavily on them.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Do they rely on them or benefit from them?

I do agree with the notion the Packers defense is high risk, high reward. I also think the Packers defense has scored the most points thus far, right? (speculation on my part).


One example I can think of ... if Tramon Williams misses the ball on that pick six, that's a helluva huge gain for the offense.


I do think the Packers defense will get better in the coming weeks and finish strong. Maybe I'm being naive, but I am thinking the biggest problem is poor communication in the secondary. I've seen Tramon go to Peprah a few times an give an expression that says 'wtf dude, what happened to you?'.

Charles Woodson thinks the Packers can and will go 19 - 0. He has faith ... I'm sort of blindly putting my faith in his hands, lol.
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wpr
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13 years ago

Do they rely on them or benefit from them?

I do agree with the notion the Packers defense is high risk, high reward. I also think the Packers defense has scored the most points thus far, right? (speculation on my part).


One example I can think of ... if Tramon Williams misses the ball on that pick six, that's a helluva huge gain for the offense.


I do think the Packers defense will get better in the coming weeks and finish strong. Maybe I'm being naive, but I am thinking the biggest problem is poor communication in the secondary. I've seen Tramon go to Peprah a few times an give an expression that says 'wtf dude, what happened to you?'.

Charles Woodson thinks the Packers can and will go 19 - 0. He has faith ... I'm sort of blindly putting my faith in his hands, lol.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



It is both. They go for the glory and when it works the team benefits. When it doesn't work they give up big yards.

Part of that IS poor communication. When one guy is selling out for the int he counts on the others to cover for him if he makes a mistake. When they don't it looks bad for both the player who whiffed on the play and the defense as a whole.

There are other times when the communication breakdown is not from trying to make the big play but knowing who is going to cover which receiver. So miscommunication is more than just one issue.

It can even be argued that when one of the safetys comes up to support the run on a play action pass that he is just as culpable as the defender who goes for the int and misses. I do not know what the schemes and responsibilities are for their formations. I am sure there are times when the primary job is run support. But then there are times when they have a greater responsibility to defend the possible pass. On those occasions if they bite on the run they are wrong and should be held accountable. The same as an OLB who gets sucked into the middle of the field and fails to contain the edge against the run when that is his job.

Big plays happen when players freelance and try to do someone else's job instead of their own.
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macbob
13 years ago

How about the other 7 games. One example doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 



Sure. The other 7 games. Packers D is giving up an AVERAGE of 400 yds/game (OK to be fair, it's 399.6 yds/game), even with stopping the opponents 16 times with INTs over 8 games.

To give some perspective to those numbers, here's the yds/game of the WORST D in terms of total yds for the past years (as far back as I could easily go on ESPN):

2010 - Den 390.8
2009 - Det 392.1
2008 - Det 404.4
2007 - Det 377.6
2006 - Ten 369.7
2005 - SF 391.2
2004 - NO 383.8
2003 - Atl 381.8
2002 - KC 390.5

The only team with a worse yds/game over that period were the 0-16 Lions in 2008. This year, we've got some company, but it's company that I'd rather not be keeping: Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, and New England (with the last two giving up over 400 yds/game).

It's not just the yardage. It's the wide open receivers, the too-frequent lack of over-the-top help that the CBs were expecting from the safetys.

My focus is repeating in the SB. Anything else (19-0) is gravy. So, does the D need to step it up this week/next week/next week? Not in my opinion. We've got 8 games to fine-tune the D, and as long as the D is hitting on all cylinders by the playoffs we'll be very hard to beat.
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
The wide open receivers is what bothers me the most. If the cornerbacks are in good coverage and the ball is still caught, so be it. It's a good play. When receivers are roaming freely without a defender 7 yards in any direction so often. That is what gets my pink panties in a bunch.
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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Sure. The other 7 games. Packers D is giving up an AVERAGE of 400 yds/game (OK to be fair, it's 399.6 yds/game), even with stopping the opponents 16 times with INTs over 8 games.

To give some perspective to those numbers, here's the yds/game of the WORST D in terms of total yds for the past years (as far back as I could easily go on ESPN):

2010 - Den 390.8
2009 - Det 392.1
2008 - Det 404.4
2007 - Det 377.6
2006 - Ten 369.7
2005 - SF 391.2
2004 - NO 383.8
2003 - Atl 381.8
2002 - KC 390.5

The only team with a worse yds/game over that period were the 0-16 Lions in 2008. This year, we've got some company, but it's company that I'd rather not be keeping: Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, and New England (with the last two giving up over 400 yds/game).

It's not just the yardage. It's the wide open receivers, the too-frequent lack of over-the-top help that the CBs were expecting from the safetys.

My focus is repeating in the SB. Anything else (19-0) is gravy. So, does the D need to step it up this week/next week/next week? Not in my opinion. We've got 8 games to fine-tune the D, and as long as the D is hitting on all cylinders by the playoffs we'll be very hard to beat.

Originally Posted by: macbob 


Very well done. That looks like a lot of hard work.

Unfortunately, yards don't mean dick. In fact, lots of yards passing tends to be a negative.

Teams gaining over 400 yards passing in a game this year have lost 73% of the time. Most of the wins, were by the Packers. With out them, the rest lost 89% of the time.

Passer rating means something, the higher the differential the more likely you win.

The Packers D was ranked 10th before today.

Somehow I don't expect either San Diego or Oakland to have passed us.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
lolleren
13 years ago
Without going into the stats discussion, what really worries me is the lack of push up the middle. Whenever we do get some pressure from either side, the QB can pretty much always just step up into a clean pocket.
Stats can always be misleading, but watching the games, when we don't get any push we will keep settling for "pressure", instead of sacks, and the fumbles that comes with some of the sacks.

Does anyone know the criteria for which the various stats services judges "pressure"?


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