Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I don't get what is so difficult about paying income taxes to a country that provides you freedom, protection, modern civilization and all those perks? What don't you get? You won the sperm lottery Wade - you weren't born Somalian or some other third world cess pool. Guess what, so did I, but I never bitch about my obligations.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



1. Taxes aren't paid to a "country." Taxes are paid to a government.

2. Governments don't provide freedom. Their job is to constrain freedoms otherwise possessed in the name of "something more important."

3. Insofar as governments provide anything positive (i.e., "something more important"), it is the protection of freedom against those who would infringe upon it (rampaging hordes of Canadians, terrorists, religous zealots, etc). So I'll grant the need to pay something for protection.

3A. Though the burden of proof for paying for said protection via coercive taxes (actually a redundancy, but one has to be sure with you statist types sometimes to make this one clear) lies with those who would use said taxes. In particular, it needs to be shown that said protection money must come via taxes, and how said taxes are better than, say, protection money paid to Don Corleone.

3B. I'm actually not completely against taxes. I'm merely arguing that any tax, to work, must be coercive. And the burden of proof for those who would coerce, not with those of us who would rather not be coerced.

3C. The fact that our decisions are made upon (more-or-less) majoritarian principles doesn't change that burden of proof. A majority of 51% (or 60% or 99.9%) has no more authority to coerce the minority than a King or Emperor does. There is no divine right of kings, and there is no divine right of the majority either.

4. Government hasn't created a single piece of civilization. Now, I'd be happy to agree that the people of the US of A have created a lot of it. At best, the government has made it easier -- through #3 -- for those people to create said civilization. (See, e.g., counter-example of Soviet Union.)

4A. Government can, under certain conditions, protect wealth. Only individuals, acting alone or in combination with other individuals, can create it. I won that sperm lottery because the foundations of this country were built strong enough between 1776 and 1945 to withstand the attack from both external AND internal seekers after power. Foundations which have been steadily chipped away at for several decades. Those foundations were not built by government, but by a people who (for awhile anyway) recognized that government was an evil that needed to be constantly limited and pruned, not something that provided cradle-to-grave protection against every possible risk and diaper rash.

4B. The federal government passes somewhere between 75,000 and 100,000 pages of new rules/laws/regulations every year, and that doesn't count the hundreds of volumes of judicial decisions, or any of the rules/laws/regulations/ordinances passed by state and local authorities. If you can demonstrate to me that even 10 percent of that government interference in the lives of its citizens constitute net increases in freedom, protection, and civilization for the individual American, then I'll entertain the idea that general taxation in some form is justified. Then, and only then, in my opinion, does the question of the relative benefits of income taxation, progressive or otherwise, and sales taxation, regressive or otherwise, become relevant.

I will continue to pay my taxes. But not because those taxes are justified. Only because I'm a wimp who doesn't want to deal with the coercive power of the state to make me.






And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
13 years ago


And as far as choosing to go childless in your life - what on earth were you put here for? That is one of your duties as a human being, and I am quite insulted by those that shirk the responsibility.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



WTH?

This is one of the most absurd things you've ever said. So, are you and I better people than Cheesey and Ralph Nader because we bred and they didn't?

Wow. Octomom for the Nobel Peace Prize then.
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DakotaT
13 years ago

WTH?

This is one of the most absurd things you've ever said. So, are you and I better people than Cheesey and Ralph Nader because we bred and they didn't?

Wow. Octomom for the Nobel Peace Prize then.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 




No your response is absurd. Wade and I were discussing why a single person needs to pay taxes. Extract one little thing and say something stupid like Octomom. Thanks!

Why don't you go back and try explaining how the poor are going to be better off paying a 25% national sales taxes versus being exempt from the current system. Oh that's right you don't know what you are talking about.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago
So, to answer what's wrong with Gay marriage it's all about how many children they have to claim more/less/whatever taxes? Not exactly the direction I was expecting, nor hoping we'd go with this. Weird.
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DakotaT
13 years ago

So, to answer what's wrong with Gay marriage it's all about how many children they have to claim more/less/whatever taxes? Not exactly the direction I was expecting, nor hoping we'd go with this. Weird.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 




Gay people are getting screwed by the IRS too, because they don't get to file a joint return. There, now they are included in the tangent.

BTW, some of these threads are so limited in nature - you should generate a separate forum. Then I won't visit them.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Then I won't visit them.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


tear #realTalk

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Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

And as far as choosing to go childless in your life - what on earth were you put here for? That is one of your duties as a human being, and I am quite insulted by those that shirk the responsibility.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


Biologically speaking, yes, the only purpose of life is to produce more life. In most species, life ends shortly after reproduction ends. Humans are an anomaly in having a relatively long lifespan following the cessation of reproductive viability. However, humans are probably the only species in which it is expected that all, or even most, males will somehow procreate. In most species, only an elite few males get that privilege. Even in humans, despite millennia of cultural conditioning that it is the "duty" of men to marry and sire children, genetic lineage studies reveal that only about 40 percent of males throughout history have managed to procreate, in contrast to the 80 percent of females who have passed on their genes. (Interestingly, one study of Y-chromosome DNA analysis revealed that the most widely propagated male DNA throughout the Eurasian supercontinent is of probable Mongolian origin, most likely because rape and rapine were standards tools of warcraft for the Khans as they fanned out over the lands.)

I don't think that all, or even the majority of, men should procreate. It is annoying, though, that people who choose not to have children tend to have significantly higher standards of living than those who do.

None of this really has anything to do with gay marriage, though.
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Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
Hey, Wade, if you are too constitutionally lazy to marry and raise children, why don't you adopt the model of the so-called "cheater salmon "? I wish I had a better link to offer than just a vague forum post, because it's a fascinating topic. It is estimated that as many as 10% to 20% of salmon are sired by these lazy guys who beat the system to fertilize the females without having to undergo the rigors of the normal salmon lifecycle.
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DakotaT
13 years ago
I think I need to amend something. I'm not insulted by people who don't want to raise children - some people just don't have what it takes, or there is something wrong that doesnt' allow them to have children.

What I'm appalled with are the people that choose not to have the children but take the attitude they have no responsibity with children in the form of paying taxes or whatever. The childless person is still apart of this civilization and has these responsibilities with no choice. Without our children, our civilization dies.


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TexasPackerFan
13 years ago
There's nothing wrong with gay marriage the divorce rate in this country is over 50%, I say let those queers get married maybe they'll drop the divorce rate.

All kidding aside for being a "free country" it ridiculous gay marriage is outlawed in so many states
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