Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I don't get what is so difficult about paying income taxes to a country that provides you freedom, protection, modern civilization and all those perks? What don't you get? You won the sperm lottery Wade - you weren't born Somalian or some other third world cess pool. Guess what, so did I, but I never bitch about my obligations.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



1. Taxes aren't paid to a "country." Taxes are paid to a government.

2. Governments don't provide freedom. Their job is to constrain freedoms otherwise possessed in the name of "something more important."

3. Insofar as governments provide anything positive (i.e., "something more important"), it is the protection of freedom against those who would infringe upon it (rampaging hordes of Canadians, terrorists, religous zealots, etc). So I'll grant the need to pay something for protection.

3A. Though the burden of proof for paying for said protection via coercive taxes (actually a redundancy, but one has to be sure with you statist types sometimes to make this one clear) lies with those who would use said taxes. In particular, it needs to be shown that said protection money must come via taxes, and how said taxes are better than, say, protection money paid to Don Corleone.

3B. I'm actually not completely against taxes. I'm merely arguing that any tax, to work, must be coercive. And the burden of proof for those who would coerce, not with those of us who would rather not be coerced.

3C. The fact that our decisions are made upon (more-or-less) majoritarian principles doesn't change that burden of proof. A majority of 51% (or 60% or 99.9%) has no more authority to coerce the minority than a King or Emperor does. There is no divine right of kings, and there is no divine right of the majority either.

4. Government hasn't created a single piece of civilization. Now, I'd be happy to agree that the people of the US of A have created a lot of it. At best, the government has made it easier -- through #3 -- for those people to create said civilization. (See, e.g., counter-example of Soviet Union.)

4A. Government can, under certain conditions, protect wealth. Only individuals, acting alone or in combination with other individuals, can create it. I won that sperm lottery because the foundations of this country were built strong enough between 1776 and 1945 to withstand the attack from both external AND internal seekers after power. Foundations which have been steadily chipped away at for several decades. Those foundations were not built by government, but by a people who (for awhile anyway) recognized that government was an evil that needed to be constantly limited and pruned, not something that provided cradle-to-grave protection against every possible risk and diaper rash.

4B. The federal government passes somewhere between 75,000 and 100,000 pages of new rules/laws/regulations every year, and that doesn't count the hundreds of volumes of judicial decisions, or any of the rules/laws/regulations/ordinances passed by state and local authorities. If you can demonstrate to me that even 10 percent of that government interference in the lives of its citizens constitute net increases in freedom, protection, and civilization for the individual American, then I'll entertain the idea that general taxation in some form is justified. Then, and only then, in my opinion, does the question of the relative benefits of income taxation, progressive or otherwise, and sales taxation, regressive or otherwise, become relevant.

I will continue to pay my taxes. But not because those taxes are justified. Only because I'm a wimp who doesn't want to deal with the coercive power of the state to make me.






And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
13 years ago


And as far as choosing to go childless in your life - what on earth were you put here for? That is one of your duties as a human being, and I am quite insulted by those that shirk the responsibility.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



WTH?

This is one of the most absurd things you've ever said. So, are you and I better people than Cheesey and Ralph Nader because we bred and they didn't?

Wow. Octomom for the Nobel Peace Prize then.
My man Donald Driver
UserPostedImage
(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
DakotaT
13 years ago

WTH?

This is one of the most absurd things you've ever said. So, are you and I better people than Cheesey and Ralph Nader because we bred and they didn't?

Wow. Octomom for the Nobel Peace Prize then.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 




No your response is absurd. Wade and I were discussing why a single person needs to pay taxes. Extract one little thing and say something stupid like Octomom. Thanks!

Why don't you go back and try explaining how the poor are going to be better off paying a 25% national sales taxes versus being exempt from the current system. Oh that's right you don't know what you are talking about.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
13 years ago
So, to answer what's wrong with Gay marriage it's all about how many children they have to claim more/less/whatever taxes? Not exactly the direction I was expecting, nor hoping we'd go with this. Weird.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago

So, to answer what's wrong with Gay marriage it's all about how many children they have to claim more/less/whatever taxes? Not exactly the direction I was expecting, nor hoping we'd go with this. Weird.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 




Gay people are getting screwed by the IRS too, because they don't get to file a joint return. There, now they are included in the tangent.

BTW, some of these threads are so limited in nature - you should generate a separate forum. Then I won't visit them.
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Then I won't visit them.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


tear #realTalk

UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

And as far as choosing to go childless in your life - what on earth were you put here for? That is one of your duties as a human being, and I am quite insulted by those that shirk the responsibility.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


Biologically speaking, yes, the only purpose of life is to produce more life. In most species, life ends shortly after reproduction ends. Humans are an anomaly in having a relatively long lifespan following the cessation of reproductive viability. However, humans are probably the only species in which it is expected that all, or even most, males will somehow procreate. In most species, only an elite few males get that privilege. Even in humans, despite millennia of cultural conditioning that it is the "duty" of men to marry and sire children, genetic lineage studies reveal that only about 40 percent of males throughout history have managed to procreate, in contrast to the 80 percent of females who have passed on their genes. (Interestingly, one study of Y-chromosome DNA analysis revealed that the most widely propagated male DNA throughout the Eurasian supercontinent is of probable Mongolian origin, most likely because rape and rapine were standards tools of warcraft for the Khans as they fanned out over the lands.)

I don't think that all, or even the majority of, men should procreate. It is annoying, though, that people who choose not to have children tend to have significantly higher standards of living than those who do.

None of this really has anything to do with gay marriage, though.
UserPostedImage
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago
Hey, Wade, if you are too constitutionally lazy to marry and raise children, why don't you adopt the model of the so-called "cheater salmon "? I wish I had a better link to offer than just a vague forum post, because it's a fascinating topic. It is estimated that as many as 10% to 20% of salmon are sired by these lazy guys who beat the system to fertilize the females without having to undergo the rigors of the normal salmon lifecycle.
UserPostedImage
DakotaT
13 years ago
I think I need to amend something. I'm not insulted by people who don't want to raise children - some people just don't have what it takes, or there is something wrong that doesnt' allow them to have children.

What I'm appalled with are the people that choose not to have the children but take the attitude they have no responsibity with children in the form of paying taxes or whatever. The childless person is still apart of this civilization and has these responsibilities with no choice. Without our children, our civilization dies.


UserPostedImage
TexasPackerFan
13 years ago
There's nothing wrong with gay marriage the divorce rate in this country is over 50%, I say let those queers get married maybe they'll drop the divorce rate.

All kidding aside for being a "free country" it ridiculous gay marriage is outlawed in so many states
blank
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : Could ban beast and I still don't think anyone catches him.
Mucky Tundra (15h) : Houston getting dog walked by Baltimore
packerfanoutwest (21h) : Feliz Navidad!
Zero2Cool (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas!
beast (25-Dec) : Merry Christmas 🎄🎁
beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 3:25 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
23h / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

23h / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

25-Dec / GameDay Threads / bboystyle

24-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

24-Dec / Random Babble / beast

24-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

23-Dec / Random Babble / Martha Careful

22-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

19-Dec / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

17-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.