Pack93z vs ZS on Neon Deion· Page 4

Pack93z
Select Member

13 years ago

For the reasons I posted above. Williams may have been respected by his peers.. But Neon had that 'star power' that literally changed the game. Stats are great and tangible.. but I never once believed they were the only data that determines one's place in the Hall.

Originally Posted by: Formo

So let me try to understand the logic here.. Sanders is in because he changed how the opposition played.. but Williams and a guy like Lewis (whom physically dominated opponents) only were respected by their peers?

The original argument was hype and flash got Sanders in quickly.. where as his game minus the returns on production didn't.

I had to listen to Madden and others oversell Sanders on defense.. he was great.. but wasn't a complete player on defense and without the return game (punts & KO) doesn't have any better case than others not in.

Therefore.. hype assisted Sanders into the hall.. unfairly. But like you said.. realistically it is a factor even though it is bullshit.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

Formo
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#32

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

I said they MAY have been only respected. I don't know them or their play.

The original argument was hype and flash got Sanders in quickly.. where as his game minus the returns on production didn't.

I had to listen to Madden and others oversell Sanders on defense.. he was great.. but wasn't a complete player on defense and without the return game (punts & KO) doesn't have any better case than others not in.

Therefore.. hype assisted Sanders into the hall.. unfairly. But like you said.. realistically it is a factor even though it is bullshit.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

It is a factor. But I tend to feel that most hype is legit.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Pack93z
Select Member

13 years ago

#33

Forgive me, they might be beyond my years of watching the NFL.. But Williams/Hayes/Walls/etc are names I don't even know. If they are before my time, then I can't answer you because I've never seen them play and I'll defer that judgement to you. If they were my time, then my point stands.. Because I don't even know them or their play shows you that they weren't anywhere NEAR as feared as Neon.

Originally Posted by: Formo

Point.. set... match.. you as a fan are feed that Sanders was the greatest ever.. a product of the hype machine. Do yourself a favor.. pop in and watch some of these guys play. I would argue that almost all of them impacted the games as much as Sanders did from the CB spot.

Albert Lewis was an absolute stud at corner.. he would make Woodson look like a punk in terms of jamming a receiver. Yes he was that dominate.. but he didn't have that media appeal that Sanders received because he wasn't a look at me player. Same with most on this list.. there are more.. probably a guy like Troy Vincent or Ty Law ahead of the mighty mite corners from the Browns..

The Media and the fans attraction to Sanders flash set him apart from most others on this list.. not his impact on defense. Biggest pile of garbage was the myth that Sanders took away half the field and others didn't.

Again.. Sanders belongs in the hall.. but not for his work as a CB alone. That was my opening point.. and this little exercise just reinforced that even more. Without his returns and flash.. by case history as noted here.. Sanders in the hall wasn't a lock.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

DakotaT
Select Member

13 years ago

#34

Originally Posted by: Formo

But that's your responsibility to know about these players when you discuss football with us old timers. I don't know about the players that played with leather helmets, so when Wade, WPR, and that fruitcake VR (where are you Nick) speak - I don't argue with them, i listen.

Formo
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#35

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

Never believed Sanders was the best ever. He was the best in my young years of watching NFL, though.

Albert Lewis was an absolute stud at corner.. he would make Woodson look like a punk in terms of jamming a receiver. Yes he was that dominate.. but he didn't have that media appeal that Sanders received because he wasn't a look at me player. Same with most on this list.. there are more.. probably a guy like Troy Vincent or Ty Law ahead of the mighty mite corners from the Browns..

The Media and the fans attraction to Sanders flash set him apart from most others on this list.. not his impact on defense. Biggest pile of garbage was the myth that Sanders took away half the field and others didn't.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

Not saying others didn't.. But didn't Neon take away half the field?

Again.. Sanders belongs in the hall.. but not for his work as a CB alone. That was my opening point.. and this little exercise just reinforced that even more. Without his returns and flash.. by case history as noted here.. Sanders in the hall wasn't a lock.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z

I came to the discussion late, so apparently missed your initial point. I'd probably agree with you there.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Formo
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#36

Originally Posted by: DakotaT

Wasn't arguing. Didn't catch the original point posted by 93z. We are agreeing.

It's ok though, Tink. Mes 'n you can still fight.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Pack93z
Select Member

13 years ago

#37

Damn.. this topic fired me up.. thanks Zombie and Formo.. lol.

Sanderitis reminds me so much of the repugnant smell that surrounds the hype the QB's get it makes me ill.. they should have just gotten it over with and placed that red do not touch me jersey on him already. He is a candy ass.. talented but a candy ass no less.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

DakotaT
Select Member

13 years ago

#38

It's ok though, Tink. Mes 'n you can still fight.

Originally Posted by: Formo

I've missed that! Give your old man my best. I'll get him a card soon.

Formo
Veteran Member

13 years ago

#39

I hate red jerseys.

Thanks to TheViking88 for the sig!!

Pack93z
Select Member

13 years ago

#40

Never believed Sanders was the best ever. He was the best in my young years of watching NFL, though.

Originally Posted by: Formo

When were you born?

Not saying others didn't.. But didn't Neon take away half the field?

Then call a spade a spade.. he was a great corner.. not the best ever. And I am not point the finger at you there.. just that Sanders wasn't that once in a lifetime player on defense that some color him as.

I came to the discussion late, so apparently missed your initial point. I'd probably agree with you there.

No problem.. I happen to think on defense alone, with Sanders lack of physicality on defense which was a huge hole in his game, that he shouldn't be in the hall before some of the others on this list.

But as a overall player and his impact on special teams.. yes he belongs. Yes there was nobody that struck more fear into team when kicking him the ball. That I argue little.

Not Dave Megget, Not Vi Sikima (SP?), not Dante Hall.. not Devin Hester. Yes in that aspect.. Sanders is like no other I have seen. Mike Vick may be that scary if they put him back there.. maybe.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"

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