nerdmann
13 years ago

Speaking of moms -- do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Who says I'm crying? Nice little ad hominem post there. I get pissy and fired up sometimes, but I fail to understand how I crossed any line there.

To answer your condescending question, no I wasn't like this about Favre, Harris, or Kampman too. Because I'm not a moron I know how the compared scenarios are different: those guys WERE let go. Driver isn't getting let go, and the speculation is entirely manufactured. I can give that media rant later, but I doubt you are interested.

In the meantime, if you're interested, I'd like to take a moment to review the several ways in which you're a douchebag. Ciao, baby.

Originally Posted by: evad04 




I wouldn't say Kampy was "let go." We kept him a year to long, for the politically correct reasons I cited earlier. His contract expired, iirc. Then he went to another team.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
evad04
13 years ago

I wouldn't say Kampy was "let go." We kept him a year to long, for the politically correct reasons I cited earlier. His contract expired, iirc. Then he went to another team.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 


If you don't mind, I'd appreciate if you could expound on exactly how Kampman's last season in Green Bay was for politically correct seasons. It seems to me they kept him exactly how long they should have. Kampy was inarguably our best pass rusher and a decent enough athlete (not to mention a "closer" -- a guy who never gave up) that giving him a shot in the 3-4 was well within reason. I think it's easy to look at his production or select a few choice plays and think he was a terrible fit. The impression I was left with is that he probably didn't have enough time to grow into the position. Even though ultimately most people agree he's a better fit with his hand in the dirt, it's not like he went to Jacksonville and lit things up (before again, unfortunately, he was lost to IR about halfway into the year).


William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
evad04
13 years ago

You wanna review something? Review my original post and your response. Then get back to me on who was being the douchebag between the two of us. You were the one who got all hot and bothered. I was just giving a dissenting opinion on who I like for the WR position. The douchebaggery was initiated by you. Don't believe me? Check the record, doucheypoops. Kisses!

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 


I think this is a matter of escalation. I was hotheaded and sarcastic, yes. That's sort of my style in these discussions. Did I make any personal attacks? No, that's something I reserve for Nerdmann. I slept beautifully after I responded -- not an inch of hate in my heart.

Your attempt at a retort, complete with fiery language (that must make you feel like a big man), insinuates some things about me that are ridiculous. I'm not crying about the Driver discussion, I'm laughing at how I think it's ridiculous. I'm pointing out flaws in the logic. I also am not some sad status-quo homer who weeps over veterans being let go. I'm all for fielding the most competitive teams. The fact that some think Driver isn't in that mix -- and cite a pair of preseason drops as evidence (I guess his two 1st down conversions don't warrant a mention, hmm) -- is reason enough to scratch your head.

I just want to be the first to say: I'm hungry. There, we've buried the hatchet. Do you wanna have a sleepover?

William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Pack93z
13 years ago
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I happen to agree the Packers kept Kampman one season longer than they should have.

They had the opportunity to trade him, as a DE and a very solid player at that spot with a hand in the dirt and ass in the air, before they experimented with him at OLB where they would eliminate one of his strengths, firing out of a stance and using the leverage afforded there to beat his opponent.

By bringing him to an upright position they eliminated his legs and tremendous burst out of the stance making him utilize a totally different skill sets to engage. Not to mention trying to teach him how to drop into coverages and forcing him to having a wider range of pre-snap reads and recognitions by playing the edge in a 3-4. Add to it that he was reluctant to do so in his first comments about the conversion.

Search.. these are the same things I said then as I say now.. so it isn't hindsight.

IMO.. the Packers held onto him one season more than they should have.. great player but and awful fit for the 3-4 defense.

Sure the got a compensatory pick for him so they didn't lose him without some compensation, it just we wasted a year of his career in an ill fit.

IMO that was more for nostalgia than keeping Driver for another season while he still is one of the best upon the roster.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
evad04
13 years ago
Pack, I won't challenge you too much on your assessment of how his abilities would seem to translate to 3-4. If anything, the best argument you point out is that Green Bay would have had a good idea of the trade value that Kampy had before the transition. I'd still contend that giving your most talented pass rusher a chance to make the conversion is for football reasons, not nostalgia. I'm with Nonstop's previous post regarding nostalgia: it's something we the people and the media talk about. The Favre Saga presented special circumstances, for pretty obvious reasons. That was a PR nightmare. But otherwise the Packers' front office under Ted Thompson has a pretty consistent track record of making their moves with football in mind (see Al Harris, Nick Barnett, Ahman Green, etc.)
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

The points right in front have basically outlined that neither of the other receivers outplayed Driver in the preseason.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 


Indeed, and I probably didn't do a good job of expressing my agreement with those points, but I was running out of time because I had to pick up the kids from school, so I focused on the point with which I took issue (not with you, but with how many fans approach it). I thought it was an excellent post on all fronts, and I believe you demonstrated that Driver won't be cut. My only point was that it is the last point -- the minor consideration, as you put it -- that a lot of fans would pick up on if Driver were to be cut, and I firmly believe that would be a foolish reason to keep him.

But I enjoyed your rant just the same. :)

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 


Thanks. I tend to be pretty quiet in real life, so it feels good to spew now and then. And ad hominem can just be fun. [neener]

UserPostedImage
Pack93z
13 years ago

Pack, I won't challenge you too much on your assessment of how his abilities would seem to translate to 3-4. If anything, the best argument you point out is that Green Bay would have had a good idea of the trade value that Kampy had before the transition. I'd still contend that giving your most talented pass rusher a chance to make the conversion is for football reasons, not nostalgia.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



I would agree with the conversion for a young player coming from college or early in their career to maximize their effectiveness.

IMO, taking a proven commodity at a specific position and trying to alter him to fit a system isn't a wise course of action in this league. As a coach, I think you adapt your system to fit the talent around.. and if the talent doesn't have a natural fit into the overall scheme, I don't think you force it into it. Just as I think the experiment in Houston is going to fail with moving Mario to the edge.

I just think the totality of that situation was more that Kampman was the face of the defense for so long, the Packers had been battered by the Favre saga and they knuckled somewhat under that preface to see if Kampman could adjust in place of accepting it for what it was and moving on. Great player poor fit. Hence the nostalgic aspect I mentioned.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
13 years ago

Indeed, and I probably didn't do a good job of expressing my agreement with those points, but I was running out of time because I had to pick up the kids from school, so I focused on the point with which I took issue (not with you, but with how many fans approach it). I thought it was an excellent post on all fronts, and I believe you demonstrated that Driver won't be cut. My only point was that it is the last point -- the minor consideration, as you put it -- that a lot of fans would pick up on if Driver were to be cut, and I firmly believe that would be a foolish reason to keep him.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



Agreed.. if that is the main reason..it is a poor reason. IMO, if the Packers decide upon a player just for the sake of going in another direction, said player would be released early in camp to ensure that they are given full opportunity to latch on elsewhere. See Swain and Havner this season..

But if the give the player an opportunity to compete and he is clearly outplayed then you release him.

I just don't think the later was proven this camp.


Thanks. I tend to be pretty quiet in real life, so it feels good to spew now and then. And ad hominem can just be fun. [neener]

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



I truly did enjoy it.. hence some of the reason I reacted to the absence remark and said absence without much reference to the cause of the absence. :)

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
13 years ago

I think this is a matter of escalation. I was hotheaded and sarcastic, yes. That's sort of my style in these discussions. Did I make any personal attacks? No, that's something I reserve for Nerdmann. I slept beautifully after I responded -- not an inch of hate in my heart.

Your attempt at a retort, complete with fiery language (that must make you feel like a big man), insinuates some things about me that are ridiculous. I'm not crying about the Driver discussion, I'm laughing at how I think it's ridiculous. I'm pointing out flaws in the logic. I also am not some sad status-quo homer who weeps over veterans being let go. I'm all for fielding the most competitive teams. The fact that some think Driver isn't in that mix -- and cite a pair of preseason drops as evidence (I guess his two 1st down conversions don't warrant a mention, hmm) -- is reason enough to scratch your head.

I just want to be the first to say: I'm hungry. There, we've buried the hatchet. Do you wanna have a sleepover?

Originally Posted by: evad04 



Sure it was a matter of escalation. That'll happen when someone gets their emotions all tangled up in it like you did. You came across like a 12 year old who sleeps in his well worn #80 jersey and can't have a discussion about him that includes anything but praise and idolatry.

Sorry, but you acted just like Faver-worshipers acted when the team wanted to move on, and they thought anyone who didn't want him on the team was a big meanie. All upset and emo and trying to twist my reasoning. Case in point- I pointed out Drivers two drops in addition to his 7 last season. You focused only on "my completely overblown mention" of his drops last week, and acted like it was a total aberration, while you conveniently ignore Driver's team high 7 drops last year.

Your comparison of my reasoning to keep Gurley to Al Davis's obsession with combine numbers conveniently ignored Gurley's production as a punt blocking special teamer. You pretend it was all about his combine numbers. Comparing him to Heyward-Bey and Mike Mamula is just stupid and way wrong. He's nothing like either of them. He's not a combine hero in any way, and noting a player's height and reach doesn't make me senile or instantly make the player an analog of two of the bigger first round busts in recent history. Gurley is a UDFA who has produced in Training Camp, not some overhyped workout warrior who looked good jumping around in shorts before the draft. He's practically the opposite of the guys you mentioned. Just more of your irrational, emotional defense of a GB legend by putting down his competition through flawed logic.

Similar to how Nick Barnett wasn't worth $6 mil as our 3rd ILB, I don't think Driver is likely to produce at a level worthy of $5 mil of compensation this year, and I don't want to see Gurley cut just to keep a 36 year old WR for his intangibles. Apparently that thought makes you all emotional and makes me Al Davis. 🤔

Now you try to pretend you were laughing, while your original post said your blood was boiling. You try to act like I'm the one who started with the bad language, while you were the one talking about not giving "a flying diarrhea shit" and were also the first one to initiate namecalling when you called me a douchebag. I discussed my opinion of the Packers' options at WR. You got all upset. You admit you were being hotheaded and sarcastic, yet still try to blame me with your bullshit about "must make you feel like a big man" and whatnot. One last stab and before you announce the hatchet is buried, huh? =d>

If you want to talk rationally about BOTH the pros and cons of a football decision, great. That was what I was aiming for in my first post that got you all upset. Let's hear it.
evad04
13 years ago
Aw Jesus. This is getting irritating. We are going to have to disagree on your characterization of my initial reaction. If you are able to sift through the sarcasm/piss/vinegar that I have since referred to, you'll see I address the discussion with what I'd hope are valid points. The middle paragraph is perhaps heavy handed in the comparison to Mamula/Heyward Bey. If I'd like to apologize about anything it's that my post was not intended to be a direct reply to yours, but rather to the central point of dumping Driver for a young/unproven. You are the only person I referred to, so I can see how it happened. Whoops.

I was just floating what I believe to be a generally absurd obsession with heights, weight's, wingspans (Bulaga's arms too short!) and 40-times. I understand the implication of making that whole Raiders comparison might be that you are ignorant, senile, etc. I'll try to be plainer in the future. That is, if I think you are one of those things I'll say it expressly. There is a bit of an understanding here, and I'm not backing away from it, I'm trying to clarify.

Your characterization of my as some emotional emo is absurd. For goodness sake, outside of a few pithy comments here and there, it was a pretty much par for the course. I'm sorry you took everything I had to say as a damn personal attack. My emotions aren't tangled up in my defense of Driver, which you'd know if you'd read the multiple posts I've had outlining, in detail, why I think he's still the superior option. In what universe does flying diarrhea compare to mom raping, settle the fuck down, and accusing me of being a crybaby. I'm all about pissing matches, I guess I just didn't see this one coming. At this point we're worlds away. I don't think I need to settle down or get thicker skin, I think you do.

If you think my 3rd paragraph is void of rational pros and cons then help me to be a better thinker. Would ya please?

P.S. The buried hatchet comment clearly failed. I said I wanted to be the first one to say "I'm hungry" not "I'm sorry" so I'm hardly burying any hatchet. Just more sarcasm.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
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