Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

I guess we'll just have to wait it out, and no I have no illusions of grandeur, but I certainly am no fool that accepts everything at face value. I am much more a fan of the Old Testament punishing God than I am of the all forgiving Jesus that the organized religions teach us. One thing hardly ever taught was the anger Christ held back. What I think I know is that it is time for each person to get "good with God" and clean his own house.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 




Well, er, um, ...

If the Old Testament way were enough, then God wouldn't have needed to use Jesus.

I'm not a fan of organized religions, for a variety of reasons. I doubt I ever will be, the books of Romans, etc. notwithstanding. And I'm never going to be confused with a liberal.

But I think if you were to sit down with Jesus, he'd say something like this to you, DakotaT:

"Son, I hate to tell you this, but from where I sit, the distance between you and that scumbag "tiny minority" is far shorter than you think, and the distance between you and the me is far, far, bigger not just than you think, but far, far farther that you at your most righteous can ever hope to travel in a thousand lifetimes.

"Son, there's only one way for you to get "good with Me." And that's to realize that you can't clean the other guy's house OR your house. Only I can do that."
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
13 years ago

Well, er, um, ...

If the Old Testament way were enough, then God wouldn't have needed to use Jesus.

I'm not a fan of organized religions, for a variety of reasons. I doubt I ever will be, the books of Romans, etc. notwithstanding. And I'm never going to be confused with a liberal.

But I think if you were to sit down with Jesus, he'd say something like this to you, DakotaT:

"Son, I hate to tell you this, but from where I sit, the distance between you and that scumbag "tiny minority" is far shorter than you think, and the distance between you and the me is far, far, bigger not just than you think, but far, far farther that you at your most righteous can ever hope to travel in a thousand lifetimes.

"Son, there's only one way for you to get "good with Me." And that's to realize that you can't clean the other guy's house OR your house. Only I can do that."

Originally Posted by: Wade 




Yes Wade, thanks for the attempt at showing me humility. I've had plenty of that in my life to date, and as a result, have absolutely zero respect for any kind of authority figure. Wisdom doesn't come from books, it comes from suffering and the tests put in front of each person. And sorry, but I call a cake eater that cause I have earned the right to do so.

As for God, I'm sure God appreciates all the unnecessary cleaning he is going to need to do, cause the world has no morality and a sick, twisted sense of right and wrong. Let's just all sit on our dead asses and watch the world go further into the depths of hell. People with any kind of knowledge of these things who do absolutely nothing but watch and say it's up to God to take care of it all, are worse than those doing the evil deeds. We have responsibilities on Earth other than accumulating wealth.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
13 years ago

Yes Wade, thanks for the attempt at showing me humility. I've had plenty of that in my life to date, and as a result, have absolutely zero respect for any kind of authority figure. Wisdom doesn't come from books, it comes from suffering and the tests put in front of each person. And sorry, but I call a cake eater that cause I have earned the right to do so.

As for God, I'm sure God appreciates all the unnecessary cleaning he is going to need to do, cause the world has no morality and a sick, twisted sense of right and wrong. Let's just all sit on our dead asses and watch the world go further into the depths of hell. People with any kind of knowledge of these things who do absolutely nothing but watch and say it's up to God to take care of it all, are worse than those doing the evil deeds. We have responsibilities on Earth other than accumulating wealth.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Well, at the risk of being called an ostrich (not for the first time), or getting you (or others here) even more pissed at me that you might already be, I will only say that, yes, we have other responsibilities than wealth accumulation. If I am going to strive to obey the Great Commandment, then it's my obligation to strive to follow Him and his example. And that does mean doing a number of things and not just mouthy the airy-fairy "love they neighbor" platitudes. (which wasn't my intention with my first post) Some of them tough things.

The tough part, though is figuring out what I'm supposed to do, isn't it? Especially if my starting point is -- as I think it has to be -- admitting that in the depths of my humanity I'm just as much a cake-eater as everyone else is. Oh, maybe I haven't committed particular sins of action like various scumbags and gratuitous seekers of wealth have. But when it comes to the biggie sins -- the seven deadlies, if you will -- I've committed them all, many, many times. Far too often to claim superiority in the only eyes that matter.

Take capital punishment, since in a sense that seems to be where part of the dispute here lies

I'm sort of not against capital punishment, actually. At least I don't see myself standing with most of those who usually claim to be its opponents. In theory at least, since I believe there may be some acts so heinous, some souls irredeemable, that execution is the appropriate response.

But I'm also no longer able to call myself a proponent of it, either. Because I can't say that I'd be willing to pull the trigger or make the lethal injection or whatever.

If the next Hitler or the next bin Laden were standing in front of me with his finger on a nuke's "Boom" button, sure, and the only way to stop him is to kill him first, sure, that I could do. But that's not capital punishment, and its not ridding the world of a scumbag cake-eater. It's simply self-defense and the defense of others.

But if that scumbag is already in handcuffs or in a concrete cell with six guards and concertina wire? Then I couldn't. Because then its me claiming what is God's prerogative.

Then it's not me "leaving it up to God". Then it's me claiming my judgment is superior to His. And that's the sin of pride all over again.

I don't know why God suffers evil to live. I don't get it at all, quite frankly. But I do believe He has His reasons. And I do believe that because they are His reasons, they are good ones. And that if He thinks I need to know, He'll explain it to me, either in this world or the next.

Meanwhile, I'll act as if part of the reason is that he must be suffering evil to live because he is still hoping for that evildoer to repent, to put his fate in His hands. And I'll suffer evil with Him.

Or, if you prefer, be an ostrich.

Because to me, that's what's being responsible means.

But that's me. It may not be the right response for you. I would rather you read God the way I do, but I don't claim to know what God wants of you. My knowledge of God's will is not sufficient -- and I am starting to believe it will never be sufficient -- for me to claim authority for knowing what another person ought to do in pursuit of His Great Commandment. All I know for sure is that I want you to make your decisions believing that they do so following that Commandment.

Because if you do, or then I know God is happy with you. And that is all that matters.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
13 years ago
Why would you think I'm mad at you? I sometimes write in that tone to stress a point. And maybe just because I'm quoting you, it is not you that I'm trying to reach, but others that lurk. Do you honestly believe I don't think of you as a good man?

I am radical, and I can be the biggest prick on earth, and I know I piss people off by putting things right in their face and force them to examine themselves; but if we don't constantly examine ourselves - how in the hell can we ever improve.

This world needs serious changes, and I'm not talking Barry (what a clown, George W Bush all over again) style either.

I do agree with you that reasons god allows Evil are baffling. But define evil - because I believe the continuous suppression of the poor by those in control is evil. Giving the poor the right to vote and calling it Democrocy does not exonerate the evil. The poor are still being suppressed and used for the financial gain of those in control.
UserPostedImage
4PackGirl
13 years ago
i don't believe God 'allows' evil. He fights it constantly but He can't win every time. i also don't believe God is a punishing person. people who believe it's God's will that causes disasters in this world - i just don't get. God is love - no hurt. but that's just my opinion. i'm not a church going Christian because at this point in my life, i don't agree with organized Christianity, in general. i'd prefer to believe the basic premise, believe in prayer, & try to listen to everyone's belief systems. my step son is agnostic & we've had some pretty interesting conversations over the past few years. my husband believes but also has a hard time understanding why God lets bad things happen to good people. his faith has been sorely tested.

the world does need serious changes & it starts with each of us. what we do in our own lives has an affect on what goes on in the world. it's when we forget that, that we become pawns to the powers that be.
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (1h) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
Zero2Cool (1h) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : Giants DC Shane Bowen tells players to “be a damn pirate."
dfosterf (6-Jun) : Semper fi !
Cheesey (6-Jun) : This is why I have so much respect for those that have gone through battles
Cheesey (6-Jun) : I can't even imagine what that would have been like
wpr (6-Jun) : "Come on, you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever?"
wpr (6-Jun) : Facing a line of machine guns 2 time medal of Honor recipient, First Sergeant Dan Daly told his men,
wpr (6-Jun) : Another detachment went into the Belleau Wood.
wpr (6-Jun) : On the 6th the Marines took Hill 142 but suffered terrible losses.
wpr (6-Jun) : It’s time to remember dfoster’s Marine brothers in Belleau Wood. The battle went on from June 1-26. Nearly 10,000 casualties.
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : Nick Collins and Morgan Burnett have signed with the PACK
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : he won't be wearing #12, maybe he will wear number two
packerfanoutwest (6-Jun) : He will fail this season, should have retired
Mucky Tundra (5-Jun) : Thus the cycle of Hall of Fame Packer QBs going to the Jets and then the Vikings is broken
bboystyle (5-Jun) : Rodgers to steelers on 1 year contract
Zero2Cool (5-Jun) : It's the cycle of civilizations. Get lazier, lazier, softer, softer and vanish.
Martha Careful (5-Jun) : great point. every aspect of society, including art, culture and sports has degraded.
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Green Bay sweep meant something to society about stopping pure excellence. We have the tush push now
dfosterf (4-Jun) : We old Martha.
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : *front four
Martha Careful (4-Jun) : Re frout four, I wish we had some Green "People Eaters" or a fearsome foursome
dfosterf (4-Jun) : *directions*
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Just don't ask him for driving direct
dfosterf (4-Jun) : Jim Marshall was an all-time great DE for the Purple People Eaters. Didn't like him. That's a compliment. RIP
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : ooppppss
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : “Kenny Clark played all of last season hurt by the way and got surgery to fix it in January”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood How much did the injury affect him last fall? “A lot.”
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : @ByRyanWood Kenny Clark said he had foot surgery in January. Injured his foot in opener against Eagles and played through it all year.
Zero2Cool (3-Jun) : Golden is wearing guardian cap again. I bet he plays with it on too.
Mucky Tundra (3-Jun) : All the stuff I'm reading from Lions fans are pointing at his toe; he more or less has permanent turf toe in one of his big toes
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Kenny played through it, and a shame he gets little credit for that, imo
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Big men. I hope it's not the undoing of Kenny Clark
dfosterf (3-Jun) : Probably his toe. Pretty much a great center. Toe injuries are brutal to bigen
Mucky Tundra (2-Jun) : Lions All-Pro C Frank Ragnow retires
wpr (30-May) : It's all good.
beast (30-May) : Yeah, and I enjoyed your comments and just attempted to add to it. Sorry if I did it incorrectly.
wpr (30-May) : Beast I never said Henderson was the salt of the earth. Nor even that he was correct. Just quoting the guy.
Zero2Cool (29-May) : What did you do??
Zero2Cool (29-May) : Whoa
beast (29-May) : OMG the website is now all white, even some white on white text
beast (29-May) : Henderson, who admits to taking cocaine during the Super Bowl against the Steelers, might dislike Bradshaw as he lost two Superbowls to him
wpr (28-May) : Hollywood Henderson said Bradshaw “is so dumb, he couldn't spell 'cat' if you spotted him the C and an A.”
Mucky Tundra (28-May) : Cooper stock=BUY BUY BUY
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
9m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

55m / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

7-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

6-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

5-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

1-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

27-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

27-May / Random Babble / Martha Careful

24-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / greengold

23-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / earthquake

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

22-May / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.