MontanaBob
13 years ago
In my early teaching days I lived WAAAAY to close to Madison. Not going that way again.
Anyone for a Weenie Roast?
porky88
13 years ago
If the situation were reverse, many people who are perfectly comfortable with this would be crying foul. And I wouldn't blame them because this looks bad.

With that said, I think it probably was human error. Who rigs an election after the votes have been counted? I think there have been many shady things with Scott Walker. The Koch phone call and then attempting to appoint the son of a major contributor to a nice job, but this seems more ridiculous than it does cheating.

I hope that the county clerk that screwed up resigns. If she were left in charge going forward, that would be awful because she screwed up bad.
djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

Not needing a valid I.D. to vote.......that's just not right. I know the democrats think it's asking too much to have someone show an I.D. for that......which is stupid. You need an ID for just about everything else.
But i guess it would make fraud alot easier to catch.
They can't allow that.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Wait, what? Every time I've voted they needed to see my Wisconsin ID. That's strange. I always assumed you needed a valid form of ID to vote.

I'm not convinced that the county clerk did or didn't do anything. I just find all the circumstances behind the extra votes a little suspicious is all. This is mainly why:

10. Two days after a highly contested judicial race is won by the Democratic candidate, a Republican County Clerk suddenly announces that the Republican won the election

human error resulted in her not reporting 14,000 votes from the heavily Republican county. The original statewide estimate had Justice Prosser trailing by 200 votes.


9. Somehow it was found acceptable for this clerk to keep the election data on her own personal computer so that there is no way to verify it.

Nickolaus said she decided to take the election data collection and storage system off the county's computer network - and keep it on stand-alone personal computers accessible only in her office - for security reasons...


8. The excuse for this "human error" was proven to be patently false when she stated she "forgot to save"

Here's the problem. Microsoft Access (any version) doesn't ask you to save. When you enter data into a table, it automatically updates the underlying database. If you close the database accidentally, the data you entered (or imported, in the case of Nickolaus) remains.


7. In a strange coincidence, a vigilant blogger found that Waukesha County had a vastly larger percentage of votes cast just for Supreme Court than other counties.

Why does Waukesha County have a huge percentage of Supreme Court Only votes?

125,000+ votes were cast for Supreme Court in Waukesha County. The next most voted for race had a total of about 106,800 votes. That leaves just over 18,000 votes for only the Supreme Court race.

18,000/125,000 = 14.4%

A Republican was complaining about fraud in Dane County on election night because there were some 10,000 ballots cast for only the Supreme Court race. However, there were a total of 182,000 votes cast in Dane County.

10,000/182,000 = 5.5%


6. An interesting twist, Walker psychically predicted this exact thing happening.

A recount could begin as soon as next week. "As long as the rules are clear, as long as there aren't ballots somehow found out of the blue that weren't counted before, things of that nature, as long as everything's above board, I think thats fair," said Walker.

5. Then we come to find out that she had been withholding this information for over 24 hours
During her press conference Waukesha County Clerk Kathy Nickolaus claimed this was an open and transparent process. Yet According to Nickolaus she found out about this at noon yesterday. She then sat on this information for 29 hours before disclosing it.


4. Then it comes out Nickolaus worked for the Republican judge in question for 13 years and has had previous problems with elections.
County Clerk Nickolaus, who worked in the Assembly Republican Caucus under then Minority Leader and Speaker David Prosser, has a history of clashing with county officials over her election responsibilities. She has drawn criticism from the County Board Chairman and other County Supervisors as recently as January for her unwillingness to adhere to audit recommendations.


3. In another strange twist which would normally disallow someone from becoming a judge in the first place, Republican Judge Prosser Admitted to leading illegal activites with Nickolaus in 2001

In 2001, the Assembly Republican Caucus was charged with using taxpayer-funded resources to conduct campaign activities, a move that is wholly illegal. Nickolaus was granted immunity to testify about these issues.

Prosser himself admitted to leading these activities, but Prosser could not be prosecuted for these criminal activities because the statute of limitations had expired.


2. It was noted by many that this is eerily familiar to what happened to Don Siegelman


From Alabama to Wisconsin? Don Siegelman Says Rove Involved in Theft of 2002 Election when 7,000 votes appear overnight

Republican Bob Riley edged out a narrow victory over incumbent Democrat Don Siegelman, but a midnight vote recount in Baldwin County, giving Riley the edge, stirred a firestorm controversy that still receives national attention to this day. A recent New York Times editorial called into question "suspicious vote tabulations" that may have occurred at the Sheriff's department in Bay Minette the county seat shortly after 11 p.m., the eve of election day, Nov. 5, 2002. And, Time Magazine published an article entitled "Rove Linked to Prosecution of Ex-Alabama Governor" by Adam Zagorin which touched on a controversial computer glitch: "Though Republican Riley ...


And the number one reason this Election is FUBAR is that the person supposed to be looking out for us, Kevin Kennedy, the director of the Wisconsin Government Accountability Board...was a former lobbyist for Accenture and ignored the law and the will of the people to force this voting system on the voters of Wisconsin


Kennedy was lobbying to award a $13.9 million contract for the creation of a statewide voter database to the controversial technology giant Accenture.

Kennedy was told at the time that the price tag for the project was far too high - Minnesota got its database work done for about $5 million. Kennedy was told that Accenture had a problematic track record - the company's work on voter registration and other technology issues has drawn criticism in states across the country.

As more was learned about the cost of the project and the company involved, Kennedy was counseled to change course by state legislators, experts in elections and state politics and groups working for clean government. Hundreds of Wisconsinites rallied outside the Elections Board headquarters to urge Kennedy and the board to reject the Accenture contract.

(Many labor union members protested that day, and non-union members too, including me)
... Wisconsin vendors warned that the state was being "fleeced" and detailed how the project could be completed - with much of the work being done by current state employees - for far less.

Several people sued the state over the contract, saying it was illegally awarded to Accenture because Kevin Kennedy signed the agreement before the board voted on it.

Source 



If you voted for Prosser do this: Replace every instance of Republican or Conservative in this article with Democrat or Liberal. Then swap every instance of Kloppenburg for Prosser and vice-versa. Then read it. Don't tell me that the situation and circumstances above wouldn't seem the least bit suspicious or at least frustrating.

I also understand a few of the points in the above article are just basic nit-picking but a few of them are really interesting.
Cheesey
13 years ago
If the role was reversed, i wouldn't be crying "foul!" Like i said, the head democrat (i don't remember her name) was right there, and said there was no hanky panky. Had she said there WAS, then i would say go ahead and file complaints and all. But if someone from "the other side" admits it was just human error, who can really complain?
Yes, it was a screw up. But it would be more of a screw up to not count the votes of people that took the time to vote.
Should the lady that caused the mess be fired? Maybe so. If she can't do the job, she should be let go.
But that goes with ANY kind of job, and doesn't matter what you are, democrat or republican.
UserPostedImage
djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
13 years ago

If the role was reversed, i wouldn't be crying "foul!" Like i said, the head democrat (i don't remember her name) was right there, and said there was no hanky panky. Had she said there WAS, then i would say go ahead and file complaints and all. But if someone from "the other side" admits it was just human error, who can really complain?
Yes, it was a screw up. But it would be more of a screw up to not count the votes of people that took the time to vote.
Should the lady that caused the mess be fired? Maybe so. If she can't do the job, she should be let go.
But that goes with ANY kind of job, and doesn't matter what you are, democrat or republican.

"Cheesey" wrote:



I hadn't heard that information about the head Democrat. It is indeed a bit less sketchy if they gave their approval.

I agree with everything else you said.

If she doesn't lose her job she should at least be forced to adhere to a common standard for tabulating votes instead of her own.
djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
Apparently it wasn't a head democrat. It was an 80-year-old Waukesha County Board Canvasser. And she has since released a statement:

The Waukesha County Democratic Party released a statement Monday ascribed to Ramona Kitzinger, 80, a member of the canvassing board since 2004.

"How is this possible?" the statement says.

Asked at the news conference by the media how a Democrat felt about the change, Kitzinger said that "all the numbers jibed up, and we're satisfied they're correct. I'm not going to stand here and tell you something that's not true."

But in the statement released Monday by the county Democrats, she wrote:

"I am still very, very confused about why the canvass was finalized before I was informed of the Brookfield error, and it wasn't even until the news conference was happening that I learned it was this enormous mistake that could swing the whole election," the statement reads. "I was never shown anything that would verify Kathy's statement about the missing vote, and with how events unfolded and people citing me as an authority on this now, I feel I must speak up."

Victor Weers, chairman of the Waukesha County Democratic Party, said that because of national attention to Kitzinger's statement and angry emails, party members talked to Kitzinger and solicited more details. The words in the statement are her own, Weers said.



Whole Article Here 

Despite what Weers said I'll admit myself there's absolutely no way that the Waukesha County Democrats did not ask her to write this piece or have an influence in it's production. That being said an old woman who doesn't use computers enough to even understand the system used for tabulating the votes should not be leaned upon as an authority in this situation regardless of what she has to say.

EDIT: I realized that in the article I linked to it says nothing about how she doesn't use computers. Because I don't want to be seen as an asshole who stereotypes old people I found the actual statement :P

The reason I offer this explanation is that, with the enormous amount of attention this has received over the weekend, many people are offering my statements at the press conference that the "numbers jibed" as validation they are correct and I can vouch for their accuracy. As I told Kathy when I was called into the room ? I am 80 years old and I don?t understand anything about computers. I don't know where the numbers Kathy was showing me ultimately came from, but they seemed to add up. I am still very, very confused about why the canvass was finalized before I was informed of the Brookfield error and it wasn't even until the press conference was happening that I learned it was this enormous mistake that could swing the whole election. I was never shown anything that would verify Kathy's statement about the missing vote, and with how events unfolded and people citing me as an authority on this now, I feel like I must speak up.

Full Statement 

porky88
13 years ago

If the role was reversed, i wouldn't be crying "foul!" Like i said, the head democrat (i don't remember her name) was right there, and said there was no hanky panky. Had she said there WAS, then i would say go ahead and file complaints and all. But if someone from "the other side" admits it was just human error, who can really complain?
Yes, it was a screw up. But it would be more of a screw up to not count the votes of people that took the time to vote.
Should the lady that caused the mess be fired? Maybe so. If she can't do the job, she should be let go.
But that goes with ANY kind of job, and doesn't matter what you are, democrat or republican.

"Cheesey" wrote:



I don't know. You seem to tout the Republican party line on every issue. :)

Honestly, nobody can convince me that FOXNEWS wouldn't be all over this story if the roles were reversed. Flip on MSNBC and they're talking about it. Why? Because it makes the other side look bad.

That is what politics is about in 2011.
djcubez
  • djcubez
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
13 years ago



That is what politics is about in 2011.

"porky88" wrote:



You nailed it. It's ugly out there. Both sides are just grasping for straws trying to discover any little thing they can spin in their favor. I've ate some of up it myself and it makes me feel sick haha.
13 years ago
The only thing that really stood out to me in that was the 14.4% supreme court only votes. That seems incredibly high.
UserPostedImage
Cheesey
13 years ago
When i saw 80 year old Ramona on TV, right when all this was going down, she seemed to know what it was, and said nothing wrong was done other then human error. Then she gets with the Democrat leaders, and suddenly the story changes.....hmmm....now i'd call THAT "fishy".
And true, Porky. My feelings are much more in line with what the republicans stand for. I don't, and never have denied that. I admit i'm a conservative.
What bothers me more are the liberals that won't admit that they are libs, and believe what the democrats say.
If you truely believe in what you say you stand for, why should you be embarassed to say so?
I'd say just about ANY regulars here know where i stand on most issues.
I know that, and am not ashamed of it.

I believe God created us, don't believe in evolution or abortion. I bet anyone here would say "I KNEW that already!" LOL!
UserPostedImage
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