Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

Jolly was arrested Friday morning and has been charged with possession of more than 400 grams of a controlled substance. He faces up to life in prison if convicted.

"wpr" wrote:



Idiotic. It's shit like this that causes me to have no respect for the legal system in this country.

I mean, seriously, possession of cough syrup is one notch lower than a capital offense like murder or rape? Hell, we don't even have the death penalty in Wisconsin, so with this harsh of a penalty, the offenses would be punished equally in this state!

We call ourselves the "land of the free," yet despite having only 5% of the world's population, we lock up 25% of the world's prisoners -- more than all the Communist and totalitarian nations of the world combined -- 55% of whom are nonviolent drug offenders. People like Johnny Jolly, who for whatever sad little reason they might have, want to get a little buzz on.

As a nation, our priorities are seriously warped.
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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
14 years ago

Jolly was arrested Friday morning and has been charged with possession of more than 400 grams of a controlled substance. He faces up to life in prison if convicted.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Idiotic. It's shit like this that causes me to have no respect for the legal system in this country.

I mean, seriously, possession of cough syrup is one notch lower than a capital offense like murder or rape? Hell, we don't even have the death penalty in Wisconsin, so with this harsh of a penalty, the offenses would be punished equally in this state!

We call ourselves the "land of the free," yet despite having only 5% of the world's population, we lock up 25% of the world's prisoners -- more than all the Communist and totalitarian nations of the world combined -- 55% of whom are nonviolent drug offenders. People like Johnny Jolly, who for whatever sad little reason they might have, want to get a little buzz on.

As a nation, our priorities are seriously warped.

"wpr" wrote:



Sometimes I wonder if there's a gene for Puritanism in American DNA. It's like we're hardwired to judge-and-punish.

Criminal law may be the one place I'm a bit of a social Darwinist. Idiocy/addiction/whatever-you-call-it-like-Jolly's is not a survival trait. Yet by treating it as a crime, we actually finance and institutionalize it: what does it cost society to incarcerate and maintain a prisoner. Instead of the idiot/addict/whatever bearing the full cost of his bad choices, the rest of us get to share it by paying for prisons, prison guards, prison uniforms, prison food, etc.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
gbguy20
14 years ago

Jolly was arrested Friday morning and has been charged with possession of more than 400 grams of a controlled substance. He faces up to life in prison if convicted.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Idiotic. It's shit like this that causes me to have no respect for the legal system in this country.

I mean, seriously, possession of cough syrup is one notch lower than a capital offense like murder or rape? Hell, we don't even have the death penalty in Wisconsin, so with this harsh of a penalty, the offenses would be punished equally in this state!

We call ourselves the "land of the free," yet despite having only 5% of the world's population, we lock up 25% of the world's prisoners -- more than all the Communist and totalitarian nations of the world combined -- 55% of whom are nonviolent drug offenders. People like Johnny Jolly, who for whatever sad little reason they might have, want to get a little buzz on.

As a nation, our priorities are seriously warped.

"wpr" wrote:



agreed completely.
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
The problem is the poorly written law in TX that defines the drug as the entire mixture or solution the actual drug is in. No matter how dilute.

400 grams of cough syrup carries the same consequence as 400 grams of pure uncut cocaine. Anything over certain quantity of grams adds an automatic intent to distribute charge. Even though he may have had 4 doses of actual codeine, he will get treated like he had 4000.

I think he is a addict and should be in treatment. Not 20 to life in prison.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
14 years ago

The problem is the poorly written law in TX that defines the drug as the entire mixture or solution the actual drug is in. No matter how dilute.

400 grams of cough syrup carries the same consequence as 400 grams of pure uncut cocaine. Anything over certain quantity of grams adds an automatic intent to distribute charge. Even though he may have had 4 doses of actual codeine, he will get treated like he had 4000.

I think he is a addict and should be in treatment. Not 20 to life in prison.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I am willing to bet they don't think the law is poorly written. I am certain they are fully aware of the differences and are saying, "Don't F'n mess around with drugs in Texas or we will nail your sorry hide to the wall and leave it there."
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
I hate to get on a political bender but, the cost of the addiction to society in general is pretty high. No pun intended.

An addict becomes a drain on society when the addiction impairs his/her ability to work, drive without killing someone or forces them to feed their addiction through crime.

That is not even considering the human cost. Are lives of people who make poor choices really disposable. And the lives of their loved ones, considering the dysfunction passed down to the addicts children. They have a much higher chance to go on to be career criminals also.

Just in self interest and not considering the cost in lives, the monetary cost of the drain of the addicts on society means it they should be prevented. Even for those who think money is more important than lives. It cost them in police protection, insurance and personal loss to criminals and taxes for the people who have to be on welfare because they are too stoned or drunk to work.

For bleeding hart liberals, the human cost is too high. For the money grubbing conservative, the monetary cost is too high. Either way, it should be prevented.

If you don't want to go to jail, don't take illegal drugs. If you do and end up in jail. Don't cry to me, you knew it was illegal.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I agree with the last sentiment entirely. I never said I have sympathy for Jolly. That doesn't change the fact I think the law is not only idiotic, but also entirely ineffective.
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gbguy20
14 years ago

The problem is the poorly written law in TX that defines the drug as the entire mixture or solution the actual drug is in. No matter how dilute.

400 grams of cough syrup carries the same consequence as 400 grams of pure uncut cocaine. Anything over certain quantity of grams adds an automatic intent to distribute charge. Even though he may have had 4 doses of actual codeine, he will get treated like he had 4000.

I think he is a addict and should be in treatment. Not 20 to life in prison.

"wpr" wrote:



I am willing to bet they don't think the law is poorly written. I am certain they are fully aware of the differences and are saying, "Don't F'n mess around with drugs in Texas or we will nail your sorry hide to the wall and leave it there."

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



Thats more than likely the intent of the laws. Our justice system is filled with laws that like that are designed to scare people into NOT committing the crime. Our justice system needs an overhaul.
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago
In my experience with the criminal justice system (professionally not personally) I have seen that they don't want to put people in jail. They want people to start being accountable for their actions and stop making decisions that put them in the bad position they are in. They seem to be more willing to let people off the hook if they just say they screwed up and will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. Like going into treatment or something.

Punishment doesn't work. A 60% recidivism rate should make that particularly obvious. The threat of punishment is even more ineffective. Teaching people to be responsible for making better choices does work. The money grubbing conservatives don't want to pay for "coddling" prisoners and the bleeding heart liberals don't want faith based programs funded by our taxes. Even if the programs are up to 95% effective.

The law is poorly written. The kicker is for intent to distribute. You don't distribute if you have a couple doses. If you have 6000 doses, you are intending to distribute.

The intent of that law was to put some teeth in it when it comes to dealers. Not to try and scare the drug addled addicts into actually starting to think past their next hits.

I don't have sympathy for drug addicts either. I would turn in family members if I knew they were dealing. Both for their own good and the protection of the public. They don't quit until they hit bottom, so sometime you have to shove them into it head first. That doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone a second chance if they took the steps to get clean.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
doddpower
14 years ago

I don't have sympathy for drug addicts either. I would turn in family members if I knew they were dealing. Both for their own good and the protection of the public. They don't quit until they hit bottom, so sometime you have to shove them into it head first. That doesn't mean I wouldn't give someone a second chance if they took the steps to get clean.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



Wow, you and I are clearly different.

They don't quit till they hit rock bottom, huh? That's a gross stereotype. I've had a ton of experience with heavy drug users and dealers and many are now incredibly successful individuals, some with significant US Government security clearances (yes, they divulged all information of their crimes). Sure, some hit rock bottom, but many don't. In other words, that generic statement simply isn't true.
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