Greg C.
14 years ago
Here's what Cliff Christl and Eric Baranczyk have to say about Quinn Johnson in their article in today's Green Bay Press Gazette:

"Quinn Johnson doesnt help much, either. Hes just too stiff to get a low center of gravity. Korey Hall is a much better blocker. You look at Johnson and think he could be a Sam Gash or a Lorenzo Neal, but he just doesnt get it done. Maybe he doesnt have the heart."

Usually I agree with these guys, but I'm not sure about this one because I don't watch the fullbacks that closely. I'd like to hear from some others who pay more attention to that stuff.

Here's the link to the article:

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101206/PKR07/101206163/Baranczyk-Christl-column-Lack-of-a-quality-QB-hurt-49ers-most 
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
The only thing I've seen him do is flatten people.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago
I disagree with the assessment.. he might not knock guys out of the hole like I think he should, but he is an effective blocker just the same.

What they are probably talking or seeing.. is short yardage situations where he isn't knocking guys backwards. Personally.. I think that is part of the teaching this quasi Zone scheme.. on a normal run play, they are teaching guys to basically isolate the movement of the defender so the back can read it and cut.

In a traditional drive scheme.. the objective is to run off a particular gap and to knock people out of the hole and as far out of the hole as you can. So the blockers and lead back get accustomed to kicking the defender out of a hole.. much like a short yardage situation.

From the sidelines it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.. but the difference in the hole is huge. In a drive scheme.. you keep churning your legs and pushing the defender.. in a zone scheme you want to immobilize him and allow the running lanes (and cut back lanes) develop naturally and let the back pick the holes, here as a blocker you set up a solid base and lock the defender down. I can see how people think the guy isn't getting an effective hard block.. but that isn't the intent.

So the bulk of the repetitions is that you are stoning the defender.. then in short yardage without a ton of reps they want you to change in up and kick, push and create a hole.

The Zone scheme should provide multiple lanes and the back picks the best one.. a drive the line and lead back creates the hole.. it is either there or not.

Hence why the Packers choose the zone.. they want guys that are effective pass blockers with good movement.. generally they are not good drive blockers because they lack the natural bulk.

Anyway.. back to the FB's.. a young developing player like Johnson probably has been hampered by the Zone scheme in those short yardage situations.. he is being asked 90% of the time to do something other than drive them out of the way.. and IMO.. reps are everything in football.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Greg C.
14 years ago
Taking the Christl/Baranczyk assessment together with pack93z's assessment, I wonder if maybe Quinn is not the best fit for the Packers' scheme. Maybe he would be more valuable to another team.
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Greg C.
14 years ago

The only thing I've seen him do is flatten people.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I remember him flattening people last year, but not so much this year. Not at all this year, really. Maybe I'm just not watching him as closely.
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Pack93z
14 years ago

Taking the Christl/Baranczyk assessment together with pack93z's assessment, I wonder if maybe Quinn is not the best fit for the Packers' scheme. Maybe he would be more valuable to another team.

"Greg C." wrote:



Honestly.. he isn't.. he is a guy that hits the hole and wants to bury somebody.. now your telling him to stick his nose in there and stop.. doesn't fit his MO at LSU.

I will cite another example of a guy knocking people around but ultimately wasn't kept because he didn't fit. Vonta Leach.

Watch Leach in that Texans system where he is allowed to kick guys out of the hole and he is very effective.

When they talked about establishing a running game last season and keeping Johnson.. I thought maybe they would scrap the zone system.. but watch when we run and the FB get into the hole and stone the defender.. they don't want him to push the guy and close a potential hole.

Without chopping guys down.. I am not a fan of the zone scheme.. and I detest the chop.. so ultimately I am not a fan.

I would rather say I am going to run off the 53 and blow guys out of the freaking hole. lol.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Greg C.
14 years ago
Much thanks for your insight, pack. I look forward to hearing some other opinions, but what you wrote makes a lot of sense.
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coltonja
14 years ago

I disagree with the assessment.. he might not knock guys out of the hole like I think he should, but he is an effective blocker just the same.

What they are probably talking or seeing.. is short yardage situations where he isn't knocking guys backwards. Personally.. I think that is part of the teaching this quasi Zone scheme.. on a normal run play, they are teaching guys to basically isolate the movement of the defender so the back can read it and cut.

In a traditional drive scheme.. the objective is to run off a particular gap and to knock people out of the hole and as far out of the hole as you can. So the blockers and lead back get accustomed to kicking the defender out of a hole.. much like a short yardage situation.

From the sidelines it doesn't seem like that big of a deal.. but the difference in the hole is huge. In a drive scheme.. you keep churning your legs and pushing the defender.. in a zone scheme you want to immobilize him and allow the running lanes (and cut back lanes) develop naturally and let the back pick the holes, here as a blocker you set up a solid base and lock the defender down. I can see how people think the guy isn't getting an effective hard block.. but that isn't the intent.

So the bulk of the repetitions is that you are stoning the defender.. then in short yardage without a ton of reps they want you to change in up and kick, push and create a hole.

The Zone scheme should provide multiple lanes and the back picks the best one.. a drive the line and lead back creates the hole.. it is either there or not.

Hence why the Packers choose the zone.. they want guys that are effective pass blockers with good movement.. generally they are not good drive blockers because they lack the natural bulk.

Anyway.. back to the FB's.. a young developing player like Johnson probably has been hampered by the Zone scheme in those short yardage situations.. he is being asked 90% of the time to do something other than drive them out of the way.. and IMO.. reps are everything in football.

"pack93z" wrote:



That was a great post. Shows that the ZBS puts a lot of emphasis on the RB making the right decision with hitting the hole. That sucks to have such a punishing FB being told to slow it down on hitting the hole. It is taking away so much of his game. Great explanation again, 93z.
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Thanks to pack93z for the sig!!!
Finley88Beast
14 years ago
I think someone said on here before that he doesn't fit our offense,I think he's a solid backup player.

The things I like about him is that he is a very strong,big,tough FB and he is the essence of lead blocker.He can't catch the ball so that's really his only bad suit in the west coast offense.

He is good for this team,the packers care more about the FB position more than any other team.Which isn't bad because they usually contribute on ST.

He could start for us one day but I for see that not happening for another 1-2 years and if he's even on our team.
A Quote from my brother Mike(Bears Fan)
"Fucking Greg Jennings"
After he makes a catch
RainX
14 years ago
Hall's problem is he gets knicked up too easily. Frankly, if they're going to extend one of the two fullbacks, it needs to be Kuhn and keep Johnson as his backup since he's still under contract for next year.
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