Zero2Cool
14 years ago

I mentioned Baltimore because it was an example of Matt Ryan being entirely different than what he was today. Why? The situation called for it. As I said before, that is the mark of a great one.

I didn't know I needed to spell it out like that. I'll remember next time. :thumbleft:

I agree that Rodgers' drive was more clutch today, but let's not take away from Matt Ryan because Aaron didn't get his signature clutch come from behind road win. Ryan played to the situation, especially in the last drive. If Capers wants to bring pressure and leave the sideline open, then Ryan should take that, instead of forcing it like a previous Green Bay QB often did. Or even Peyton Manning against New England last week.

"porky88" wrote:



I think you just have a flat out boner for Matt Ryan and refuse objectivity, which is something I normally find with your comments. I am talking about this game, does that need to be spelled out? I said he did nothing special in this game. Yet, you bring in Baltimore? I know Matt Ryan is a very good quarterback, but how can you deny the fact that his running game doesn't help him?

You have a low barometer for being 'great', that's what I'm understanding. Trent Dilfer played similar, took what the defense gave him, got him a ring, but I don't think Trent was a great QB.

A great QB makes plays from nothing when it counts most. I've seen Matt Ryan do that a few times, but he did not do that this game. He did not do anything special on the final drive, that is what I am saying.

btw, I'm not knocking the obvious boner for Matt Ryan, nothing wrong with that at all.
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millertime
14 years ago


A great QB makes plays from nothing when it counts most. I've seen Matt Ryan do that a few times, but he did not do that this game. He did not do anything special, that is what I am saying.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Completing 24 of 28 passes is special. Making something out of nothing? Are you saying that only QBs that scramble and complete improbable passes are great?

Sounds like years of Favre have transformed your idea of what a great QB is. Favre completing a crazy 4th and 12 play isn't anymore impressive than Tom Brady (or Matt Ryan) completing over 80% of their passes WITHOUT any interceptions!

Which QB did a better job protecting the ball today? The one that won. (This isn't a knock on Rodgers, b/c if we had any semblance of a running game we wouldn't expose him to all those QB sneaks.)

Rodgers made more plays today, but Ryan never turned the ball over. I'd still take Rodgers over him ANYDAY (could you imagine how good A-Rod would be with Michael Turner?), but Ryan play a PHENOMENAL game.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Completing 24 of 28 passes is special. Making something out of nothing? Are you saying that only QBs that scramble and complete improbable passes are great?

Sounds like years of Favre have transformed your idea of what a great QB is. Favre completing a crazy 4th and 12 play isn't anymore impressive than Tom Brady (or Matt Ryan) completing over 80% of their passes WITHOUT any interceptions!

Which QB did a better job protecting the ball today? The one that won. (This isn't a knock on Rodgers, b/c if we had any semblance of a running game we wouldn't expose him to all those QB sneaks.)

Rodgers made more plays today, but Ryan never turned the ball over. I'd still take Rodgers over him ANYDAY (could you imagine how good A-Rod would be with Michael Turner?), but Ryan play a PHENOMENAL game.

"millertime" wrote:



Brett was cardiac. He played all out and that's what I admired about him the most. Brett hasn't changed or conformed my thinking on what a good QB is, or does. My minor experience playing QB and analytical approach to the position have.

Yes, completing 24 out of 28 is pretty damn good. But I dig deeper, how far were those throws? How many went over 15 yards? If only two of them went farther than 15 yards, it is still a helluva an accomplishment.

However, I do not think he did anything special on the last drive. He took what the defense gave him, as others have said. I don't find that as special, or phenomenal. As I've also said, Matt Ryan has played some excellent games bringing his team back many times in his short career.

Matt Ryan DID play a very good game. As mentioned, 24 out of 28 is no slouch performance.
Matt Ryan was NOT special on the final drive of the game.
Matt Ryan is a very good QB. I'd say top three under 30 years old.
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porky88
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14 years ago

I mentioned Baltimore because it was an example of Matt Ryan being entirely different than what he was today. Why? The situation called for it. As I said before, that is the mark of a great one.

I didn't know I needed to spell it out like that. I'll remember next time. :thumbleft:

I agree that Rodgers' drive was more clutch today, but let's not take away from Matt Ryan because Aaron didn't get his signature clutch come from behind road win. Ryan played to the situation, especially in the last drive. If Capers wants to bring pressure and leave the sideline open, then Ryan should take that, instead of forcing it like a previous Green Bay QB often did. Or even Peyton Manning against New England last week.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I think you just have a flat out boner for Matt Ryan and refuse objectivity, which is something I normally find with your comments. I am talking about this game, does that need to be spelled out? I said he did nothing special in this game. Yet, you bring in Baltimore? I know Matt Ryan is a very good quarterback, but how can you deny the fact that his running game doesn't help him?

You have a low barometer for being 'great', that's what I'm understanding. Trent Dilfer played similar, took what the defense gave him, got him a ring, but I don't think Trent was a great QB.

A great QB makes plays from nothing when it counts most. I've seen Matt Ryan do that a few times, but he did not do that this game. He did not do anything special on the final drive, that is what I am saying.

btw, I'm not knocking the obvious boner for Matt Ryan, nothing wrong with that at all.

"porky88" wrote:



I don't know where you're getting this idea that I don't believe the running game benefits Atlanta greatly. I wasn't even focusing on the running game.

I simply remarked that I believed Atlanta would win the game in regulation after GB scored with about a minute remaining. I think Matt Ryan is the reason why because he is one of the most clutch QBs in football. If anything, the Packers were guilty of scoring too soon.

That made you say Ryan was not special today, which I disagreed with.

I don't believe you understand just how hard it is for a QB to go 24-28 in a game. That kinda discipline with the football is rare and unheard of. The media rewards 300-yard games, but not the type of efficiency Ryan showed today. In my opinion, efficiency can be special pending the situation. Just like a 300-yard game can be special pending the situation. Today, both Ryan and Rodgers were special.

They did so in completely different ways because both QBs were in completely different situations. However, the result was the same. Both played amazing games. Ryan just had the football last.
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reggie
zombieslayer
14 years ago


But Ryan has won in those ways. Ryan did so against Baltimore. He threw for 300-plus yards and three touchdowns. The Ravens shut down Turner. Ryan had to win that game.

Yeah, if the Packers can't stop the run, you run the football. Running the football is very easy when you can't be stopped. So you do that.

Ryan can win in almost every realistic scenario. It is very similar to Tom Brady.

Best Brady stat is his win and loss record in 350-plus yard and three touchdown games. He has six or seven and the Patriots are unbeaten. Why? The game planned called for that, but Brady has also proven he can win when throwing for 200 yards and a TD. He adapts to the situation.

I believe Ryan does so as well.

Don't get me wrong, I think Rodgers is there too. I don't mean to take anything away from him. He has been great and was again today. Don't take my praise of Ryan as criticism of Rodgers. Seems like a few of you are doing that.

"porky88" wrote:



Matt Ryan doesn't even belong in the same sentence as Tom Brady. Maybe we'll revisit this topic years from now, but until Ryan has a 50 TD vs 8 INT season and wins 3 SBs with very average WRs and a crappy running game (Roddy White is arguably the best WR in the NFL this season and is there any argument that Turner isn't an elite RB?), I'd rather not compare Ryan with Brady. He's not worthy, at all. That may change in the future, but like I said, we'll revisit this concept years from now. I highly doubt it though.
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bozz_2006
14 years ago
Maybe Porky was a little overzealous comparing Ryan to Brady, but it was to make a point. Just like you made it a point to bring up Brady's season with 50 TDs and only 8 INTs. You really think the only way a QB should be spoken of in the same conversation as Brady is if he's had a 50 TD / 8 INT season? That would be a very short conversation!
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porky88
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14 years ago
It's more of an observation that they share similar traits than it is a direct comparison. Ryan is no Brady, but he has the traits that made Brady great. Like Brady, I don't always suspect Ryan will have the lofty numbers of a Peyton Manning, but I do believe he'll win a lot of games.

I said last week that I think Aaron Rodgers/Matt Ryan has a chance to be the next player rivalry of the NFL or of the 2010s. Doesn't mean it will, but it has a chance. Whether that translates into similar success for both is still along ways away.

Another example is I don't know how anyone can't watch Phillip Rivers and not think of Dan Marino a little bit. Rivers is no Marino either, but he commands himself in a similar manner. That is merely what I am saying.
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reggie
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

I don't believe you understand just how hard it is for a QB to go 24-28 in a game.

"porky88" wrote:



You're right, I don't understand how hard it is to throw around 30 passes under 20 yards, completing more than 85% of them to receivers that generally have a wide passing window, and having a running back net over 100 yards on 23 carries.

Matt Ryan DID play a very good game. As mentioned, 24 out of 28 is no slouch performance.
Matt Ryan was NOT special on the final drive of the game.
Matt Ryan is a very good QB. I'd say top three under 30 years old.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Matt Ryan played an excellent game, 24 of 28 is very good, even if only averaging a little more than 8 yards a completion.
Matt Ryan's final drive was NOT special.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



When I think of special games by a QB, I think of games like Brett back in '03 against the Raiders. I have a higher barometer for a special game than what Matt Ryan did today.

I know that means I'm insecure about Aaron Rodgers and whatever other asinine insult you can fling at me.

I'll spell it out for a third (or more) time.
Matt Ryan is a very good QB, one of the top 3 under 30 years old, I believe.
Matt Ryan played a very good game against the Packers.
Matt Ryan's final drive was not special.

PS, I seen the same segment that compared Marion with Rivers. it was neat.
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BangTheDrum
14 years ago
Let's not forget the defense did nothing in terms of rushing the passer or creating turnovers
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porky88
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14 years ago

I don't believe you understand just how hard it is for a QB to go 24-28 in a game.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



You're right, I don't understand how hard it is to throw around 30 passes under 20 yards, completing more than 85% of them to receivers that generally have a wide passing window, and having a running back net over 100 yards on 23 carries.

Matt Ryan DID play a very good game. As mentioned, 24 out of 28 is no slouch performance.
Matt Ryan was NOT special on the final drive of the game.
Matt Ryan is a very good QB. I'd say top three under 30 years old.

"porky88" wrote:



Matt Ryan played an excellent game, 24 of 28 is very good, even if only averaging a little more than 8 yards a completion.
Matt Ryan's final drive was NOT special.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



When I think of special games by a QB, I think of games like Brett back in '03 against the Raiders. I have a higher barometer for a special game than what Matt Ryan did today.

I know that means I'm insecure about Aaron Rodgers and whatever other asinine insult you can fling at me.

I'll spell it out for a third (or more) time.
Matt Ryan is a very good QB, one of the top 3 under 30 years old, I believe.
Matt Ryan played a very good game against the Packers.
Matt Ryan's final drive was not special.

PS, I seen the same segment that compared Marion with Rivers. it was neat.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I am sorry you took that comment as an insult Zero. It was not meant as insult, but I don't take back what I said. Packer fans are sensitive about Aaron Rodgers. They were about Brett Favre too. Most fans are about their proven players, but things have escalated because of circumstances.

However, I will always look at things without my green and gold glasses on. Not to say you don't, but you did say the following

I thought we were talking about today's game, in which he did nothing special. Rodgers drive to tie the game, that was more 'clutch' than Ryan's four or five passes to to get a first down or two for his kicker to win the game.



Which I actually agreed with, but case in point, you went out of your way to compare Ryan to Rodgers, when I did no such thing. In a loss, you dont go out of your way to do that without some sort of objective. For the record, I never said the final drive was special. I think his entire body of work for this game was special or pretty amazing. Reasons have been stated.

His final drive was routine. He let the game come to him on that drive and they won. I saw that coming. The Packers scored too early.

Perhaps I will find that I overrated his performance on a second viewing, but I will not agree that he did nothing special in this game or he just put on a Trent Dilfer impression. You dont produce those numbers in a close win on accident.
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reggie
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago

The Packers scored too early.

"porky88" wrote:



They have a habit of doing this. They seem to subscribe to the notion that it's better to get the points on the board as rapidly as possible instead of taking a deep breath and controlling the tempo of the game. They act like a nervous teenage boy who's afraid of spurting before he gets in the girl, so he shoves it in as quickly as possible instead of taking his time with the foreplay. Then the girl kicks out of bed in disgust, ushers him to the door, and never answers his phone calls again.
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doddpower
14 years ago

The Packers scored too early.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



They have a habit of doing this. They seem to subscribe to the notion that it's better to get the points on the board as rapidly as possible instead of taking a deep breath and controlling the tempo of the game. They act like a nervous teenage boy who's afraid of spurting before he gets in the girl, so he shoves it in as quickly as possible instead of taking his time with the foreplay. Then the girl kicks out of bed in disgust, ushers him to the door, and never answers his phone calls again.

"porky88" wrote:




HAHAHA, been there, done that!!!


Hate when that happens!!


:thumbright: :thumbright: :thumbright:
dhazer
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14 years ago

Let's not forget the defense did nothing in terms of rushing the passer or creating turnovers

"BangTheDrum" wrote:



Ummmm we sacked Ryan more in that game than he has been sacked in the previous 4 games, So the sack thing is wrong.

I'm just going to tip my hat to the Falcons because they did what good teams do and that is they do just enough to win.

Btw I just want to say this off topic, I am glad we played the Bills early in the year and not now. The Bills have played since week 7 alot of good teams. They lost to 8-3 Ravens 37-34, lost to 7-4 Chiefs 13-10, Lost to 8-3 Bears 22-19 and just last week lost to 8-3 Steelers 19-16. It must be tough to be a Bills fan. Just something I found interesting that the Bills also have lost 4 games by 3 points but against all division leaders.
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go.pack.go.
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14 years ago

The Packers scored too early.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



They have a habit of doing this. They seem to subscribe to the notion that it's better to get the points on the board as rapidly as possible instead of taking a deep breath and controlling the tempo of the game. They act like a nervous teenage boy who's afraid of spurting before he gets in the girl, so he shoves it in as quickly as possible instead of taking his time with the foreplay. Then the girl kicks out of bed in disgust, ushers him to the door, and never answers his phone calls again.

"porky88" wrote:



We ran 5 minutes off the clock...I was actually impressed at that. Still could have done more than that. Oh wait, we can't run the ball so no we couldn't.

That drive was executed very well.
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bozz_2006
14 years ago
We did score too early. But I put that on the defense, not the offense.
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blueleopard
14 years ago

The Packers scored too early.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



They have a habit of doing this. They seem to subscribe to the notion that it's better to get the points on the board as rapidly as possible instead of taking a deep breath and controlling the tempo of the game. They act like a nervous teenage boy who's afraid of spurting before he gets in the girl, so he shoves it in as quickly as possible instead of taking his time with the foreplay. Then the girl kicks out of bed in disgust, ushers him to the door, and never answers his phone calls again.

"porky88" wrote:



A running game would slow it down.
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porky88
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14 years ago

Let's not forget the defense did nothing in terms of rushing the passer or creating turnovers

"dhazer" wrote:



Ummmm we sacked Ryan more in that game than he has been sacked in the previous 4 games, So the sack thing is wrong.

I'm just going to tip my hat to the Falcons because they did what good teams do and that is they do just enough to win.

"BangTheDrum" wrote:



I thought the pressure was okay. I think the Falcons did a great job of neutralizing Clay Matthews. The Packers are arguably the best defense in football, when Matthews is running on full.

He wasn't against Atlanta and Tyson Clabo is a reason why. He did a great job on him and the Falcons did a nice job game planning around him.
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reggie
istanbulpacker
14 years ago


It was interesting to see Capers suggest he might play more coverage this week instead of bringing pressure.

That should tell you the respect he has for Ryan - the Falcons don't have much besides White.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:



First off, I think this QB talk has hijacked a thread with a subject bemoaning our Special Teams.

So, I continue off topic with aadp's quote above. It seems everytime Dom decides to drop back in coverage (i.e. both Minny games last year) we suck and lose games. I liked some of the early pressure we put on ATL but we didn't seem to follow through. Whereas, I think that ATL was effective at getting pressure because they didn't have to respect the run (we had none).

Anyone else see this happening?

Bottom Line for all this, to me, is that despite our great efforts and a brilliant drive at the end of the game, we were still outplayed. We also didn't seem to play our best ball. Upshot is that if we played well in all aspects (run, pass, D, ST, etc) we would have won. We're a great team when we fire on all cylinders. This Sunday, we didn't. And we were still darned good. Almost good enough.
blank
Stevetarded
14 years ago
One thing to note is they lost 3 special teamers all pretty early on. I'm sure that hurt a bit to have less experienced guys in there.
blank
RaiderPride
14 years ago

We just lost after ARod just took us on a "game winning" drive......

Fuck you special teams.

Is this fucking 2008?

"go.pack.go." wrote:



"Fucking Special Teams."

Now there is an insight I could get from any drunk fan at the game, or in any sports bar.

A Brilliant and educational point topped off with remarkable insight..

Thank you for that.


You made me a wiser and more knowlegeable football fan.
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