Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers must find ways to win· Page 5

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

4 points or less = close games. I didn't remember what the actual number for the spread was. Thanks.

"Packers_Finland" wrote:

4 points or less at the end of the game doesn't mean a whole lot. You can easily get within that range and still have no real chance of winning if you're last score was within 2 minutes.

We've discussed this close game thing before, in '08. Some of us did a nice job with the analysis.

Edit.
'08 7 losses of 4 points or less
'09 1 loss of 4 points or less
'10 3 losses of 4 points or less, and one win

Those are the end of game scores that were compared. That's pretty stupid, isn't it? The Lions scored enough to make it a close game, yet should Rodgers get credit for a 4 point or less victory? I don't think so. Equally, I don't think he deserves credit for a loss in similar situations.

The 1 - 11 stat for end of game scores is idiotic. The better stat is fourth quarter with 5 minutes or less and the Packers tied or losing that Rodgers had the ball and a chance to win. Do you think this journalist would take the time to do that?

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#42

Yeah, I'd rather have a quarterback who had a better record in close games. But what I'd like even more is a dominant team that didn't have so damn many close games.

"Wade" wrote:

Amen. I've been saying this for years. All it means when a team has frequent close scores in the fourth quarter is that they didn't take care of business in the first three.

Come-from-behind victories has to be the single most overrated stat tracked by the drama-chasing pundits.

Greg C.
Registered

14 years ago

#43

Yeah, I'd rather have a quarterback who had a better record in close games. But what I'd like even more is a dominant team that didn't have so damn many close games.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

"Wade" wrote:

You guys can keep right on wishing for a "dominant" team, but such teams are a rarity in today's NFL. I would put last year's Saints in that category. The '07 Patriots almost were the most dominant team ever, but they lost the Super Bowl, so it all meant nothing.

Even teams that manage to be dominant or borderline dominant for an entire season are seldom able to do the same thing again the following year. This is one reason why elite QBs have become more and more valuable in recent years. They can often swing close games in their team's favor in the closing minutes, when accurate passing and quick decision making are at a premium. Rodgers needs to be one of those QBs. He's not there yet. Let's hope he gets there soon.

Of course the 1-11 record in close games is not all Rodgers' fault, or even mostly his fault, but when a pattern like that emerges there has to be some concern about the QB.

blank

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#44

Except that in most of the close losses, Rodgers' personal performance has been fantastic, in contrast to some of Favre's close losses, for which he reserved some of his most spectacular failures. There comes a point where you have to examine the rest of the team, and failing that, the coaching.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#45

Let's keep using the 1 - 11 in close games like it has meaning. Even though it has no accuracy on gauging a QB's ability to win in close games.

If you want to judge a QB you need to look at what the QB did or did not do when the game was on the line.

Hell, the 1 win shouldn't even count in favor of Rodgers because he didn't assist in breaking the tie or getting the final score in the waning minutes of the game to give us that win. Sure we can make the argument that we had the ball with 6:32 left and the 8 runs, 1 kneel down and his 3 passes helped run down the clock so the Lions didn't get another chance.

The only tied game, or come from behind victory we have had with Rodgers I believe was the opening game last season against the Bears. There's less than a few minutes left and he hit Jennings for a 50 or so yard TD score. Then the defense held up the last minute plus to seal the win for us.

Let's be cute and say if the point margin is 13 points or more, what's the record for Rodgers as starting QB?

11 wins, 1 loss.

Or how about 10 points or more margin. (playoff loss included)

14 wins, 4 losses

longtimefan
Registered

14 years ago

#46

Or have this type of thinking

Maybe just maybe if Rodgers would "Risk" throwing the ball into double coverage "at certain Times" when his receivers are in or near the end zone to try & get the win instead of being the Anti-Favre & playing it safe then maybe just maybe he would have a few more W's instead of L's

Greg C.
Registered

14 years ago

#47

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

I know he's played well in a lot of those close losses, but the real issue here is how he plays at the end. The playoff loss to Arizona, for example, was a game where he played well overall, but it ended badly.

I don't think Aaron is a choker by any means, but I would like to see more evidence that he can rally the team when he needs to. Jim McMahon was great at that even though he was not a great QB. I think Favre is overrated as a comeback QB. It is just a roll of the dice with him, which is scary whether he is playing against you or with you.

blank

Packers_Finland
Registered

14 years ago

#48

Let's keep using the 1 - 11 in close games like it has meaning. Even though it has no accuracy on gauging a QB's ability to win in close games.

If you want to judge a QB you need to look at what the QB did or did not do when the game was on the line.

Hell, the 1 win shouldn't even count in favor of Rodgers because he didn't assist in breaking the tie or getting the final score in the waning minutes of the game to give us that win. Sure we can make the argument that we had the ball with 6:32 left and the 8 runs, 1 kneel down and his 3 passes helped run down the clock so the Lions didn't get another chance.

The only tied game, or come from behind victory we have had with Rodgers I believe was the opening game last season against the Bears. There's less than a few minutes left and he hit Jennings for a 50 or so yard TD score. Then the defense held up the last minute plus to seal the win for us.

Let's be cute and say if the point margin is 13 points or more, what's the records for Rodgers as starting QB?

11 wins, 1 loss.

Or how about 10 points or more margin. (playoff loss included)

14 wins, 4 losses

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I hope you did not direct the first two paragraphs to me, as my posts were merely for the purpose of correcting dhpackr's comments.

This is a placeholder

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#49

but the real issue here is how he plays at the end.

"Greg C." wrote:

I thought you'd probably bring this up. It certainly is the biggest weakness in my argument. Rodgers' performance does seem to plummet in the last drive of games.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#50

but the real issue here is how he plays at the end.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:

I thought you'd probably bring this up. It certainly is the biggest weakness in my argument. Rodgers' performance does seem to plummet in the last drive of games.

"Greg C." wrote:

If how he plays at the end is the "real issue" yet we're gonna use 1 - 11 in games decided by 4 points as less as a barometer in our comments?

I think the real issue is people wanting to point fingers but are too damn lazy to make sure they're going off credible information.

Every play Rodgers has taken for the Packers since he started is available at NFL.com

In my little opinion, if you want to judge a QB on winning close games, you need to dig in to the facts, not the end result score. Go through the play by play. If the QB has the ball within say the last 5 minutes of the game, what was the outcome? Did he throw an interception that gave the team another chance to increase their lead? Did he make good throws, but were dropped, did he make bad throws? Fumble the ball? Did he sustain a drive that got us in FG range, but the kicker was blocked or shanked the kick? Did he get us a score only for us to lose in over time? How did we lose in overtime, did he have a chance to win it or was he buried inside his 15 yard line and didn't use proper audibles?

I could go on for quite awhile here ... but fact is, Rodgers is in his third season as a starting and his 5th season overall. We're not gonna know if he has it to pull it out in close games until we have more close games under his belt.

One would think the 7 in '08 would have taught him something, and his damn coach.

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Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol

Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP

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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....

beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago

beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems

beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason

beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?

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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D

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packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half

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