4PackGirl
14 years ago
i will never understand the need to say 'if only we did this, if only we did that' after an especially sloppy piece of crap loss like this one. we didn't do much right & we did a helluva lot wrong, right? then if you're 'playing' the numbers of last nite's game, you'd have to agree with what mccarthy did, right? ya know, cuz we played like shit...the whole f'in game. but magically at the end, we'd poof pull somethin outta our asses & win?!?
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Both Wade and Zero are deliberately missing the point for philosophical reasons. It's irritating.

So what if you "shouldn't" let the opposing team score? If it materially increases your chances of winning the game, that is the correct move. It's analogous to a strategic retreat in warfare -- or perhaps even closer to a "demasking procedure" following a gas attack, in which you force one of your soldiers to take off his mask to determine whether or not chemical agents are still in the area. It's very possible you will kill one of your own men to ensure the safety of the rest, but if your unit is thereby able to continue the mission, you consider it a justifiable loss.

Yes, letting the Bears score would have put the Packers down by 7 instead of by 3, but it would have dramatically increased their probability of tying the game. This is indisputable. I can't believe we're still arguing about this.
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musccy
14 years ago


Yes, letting the Bears score would have put the Packers down by 7 instead of by 3, but it would have dramatically increased their probability of tying the game. This is indisputable. I can't believe we're still arguing about this.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



exactly...and to address the counter argument, as german said, this may have only increased the probability of success from 0.5% to 5%, but I can't phatom an argument where allowing them to score wouldn't increase the odds, however low they may be. I'm actually surprised the bears didn't take a knee for this reason.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Good point. I was expecting them to do just that. I don't know if trying to score was an attempt to rub the defeat in the Packers' face or an attempt to be gracious -- give the defense a chance to stop them, so to speak. It could have been either.
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doddpower
14 years ago
It's just a simple debate between those that think our only hope of winning / tying was a messed up kick vs. those that think the ball in the hand of Rodger's was our best chance of winning. Neither is wrong. It's just that some of us didn't agree with the choice MM made, which proved to not work out, at least this time.

Personally, if I have Rodger's as my QB, I do everything in my power to give him a chance. All the horrible drives would mean little if he put together one great drive. Kind of reminds me of that Broncos / Chargers game a few years ago with the blown fumble call. The Broncos were down by 1 after scoring a TD and instead of kicking the extra point to tie, they went for 2, got it, and won the game. It didn't seem as if the Broncos should win, so they went gambled the house and won. Sure, it was an overall sloppy game, but at the end of the day they still had a win and the rest of the season to fix the mistakes made.

Some of the best "stars" to ever play the game rise to the occasion in the face of the toughest adversity. Aaron Rodger's did not get that chance. You all are right, we probably wouldn't have won anyway. I'm just not sold on the opinion that we were better off to not even try.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Normally, I'd side with those saying giving the ball back to Rodgers with a minute and a timeout to go to tie would be a definite thing. However, look at how we played the game. If you can't figure it out from that, I don't know what to tell ya.

I'm not gonna freak out on those who say we should have let them scored, like some of you are on the few who say it wouldn't have mattered.

Letting them score is a awfully close minded thinking process. You assume the ball carrier would run it in. That would be a helluva funny scene though, lol. Ball carrier runs it into the 5 yard line, stops, the Defense doesn't pursue... they just all stand there ... waiting ... GAME OVER! hah


I dunno, I think its funny. It's too bad some are so pigheaded and refuse to see things from another perspective other than their own. And when you start to show positives to their perspective, they just pounce on it as if there's no other perspective instead respecting both scenarios, or multiple scenarios.

Take, take, take, no give with some of ya. Amusing how predictable it is too, almost as predictable as some of our play calling.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Some of the best "stars" to ever play the game rise to the occasion in the face of the toughest adversity. Aaron Rodger's did not get that chance. You all are right, we probably wouldn't have won anyway. I'm just not sold on the opinion that we were better off to not even try.

"doddpower" wrote:



I thought Rodgers played a fantastic game. I strongly feel if it wasn't for him, it'd have been a blow out in their favor.


I'll have to watch the last few minutes again, but I just don't see how letting them score was the best chance to win at that point in time. I still think if we had let them score, they'd have kneeled down to run the clock out. I seriously don't understand why everyone seems to be omitting that little tactic that's been used previously. Kind of goes back to the "my perception > *" again.

It would have taken quite a bit to line up for us to even have a chance, on a night where NOTHING lined up for us.

At least we walked out relatively ... "healthy".
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doddpower
14 years ago

Normally, I'd side with those saying giving the ball back to Rodgers with a minute and a timeout to go to tie would be a definite thing. However, look at how we played the game. If you can't figure it out from that, I don't know what to tell ya.

I'm not gonna freak out on those who say we should have let them scored, like some of you are on the few who say it wouldn't have mattered.

Letting them score is a awfully close minded thinking process. You assume the ball carrier would run it in. That would be a helluva funny scene though, lol. Ball carrier runs it into the 5 yard line, stops, the Defense doesn't pursue... they just all stand there ... waiting ... GAME OVER! hah


I dunno, I think its funny. It's too bad some are so pigheaded and refuse to see things from another perspective other than their own. And when you start to show positives to their perspective, they just pounce on it as if there's no other perspective instead respecting both scenarios, or multiple scenarios.

Take, take, take, no give with some of ya. Amusing how predictable it is too, almost as predictable as some of our play calling.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I will have to go back and watch those last few plays again, but from what I remember, it would have been VERY easy to let the RB score. He had his head forward and was going for the end zone. Slightly less effort or even a simple push from the defense and he would have been in the end zone. Regardless of the decision to not let them score, I don't see how one could think it wouldn't have been incredibly easy to let him score. Perhaps I'm just remembering it wrong, but I saw no indication that he was going to stop, so I don't understand that argument.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
I cannot conceive of any means by which a mathematical argument could be constructed that would assign a higher probability of winning to making a goal line stand than letting the opposing team score, because even if the best-case scenario were to occur and the Bears missed the kick, that would still leave no time on the clock in which to mount a counteroffensive. By contrast, letting the Bears score leaves sufficient time on the clock for a number of theoretical possibilities to occur: a) A runback for touchdown (admittedly not likely); b) a long runback setting the Packers up with good field position (higher probability); c) a well-executed offensive drive that results in a touchdown (still higher probability). A touchdown then affords the Packers the opportunity to either kick the extra point and take the game to overtime or go for two and win the game outright. Every one of those possibilities produces a better potential outcome for the Packers than making a futile goal-line stand.

But I could be wrong. My wife is a mathematics teacher. I'll ask her.
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musccy
14 years ago

Normally, I'd side with those saying giving the ball back to Rodgers with a minute and a timeout to go to tie would be a definite thing. However, look at how we played the game. If you can't figure it out from that, I don't know what to tell ya.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



nobody is saying the offense definitely would have scored, we all agree it was an unlikely scenario, esp. with no TOs, our tackles playing like shit, etc.

Regardless, the packers were going to have to score at the end of the game to tie so it comes down to if you think the odds of scoring are more in your favor with 50 seconds left on the clock or 5 seconds.
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Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : also, no bueno when a guy starts getting concussions right off the bat in his career
Zero2Cool (25-Jul) : Concussion is worse. Banks probably vet off day via back booboo claim
Mucky Tundra (25-Jul) : @AndyHermanNFL Jordy Nelson out at camp today. No word if he’s in play for one of the two open roster spots ; )
dfosterf (25-Jul) : Is that better or worse than Banks bad back?
Zero2Cool (25-Jul) : Savion concussion ... not good.
packerfanoutwest (24-Jul) : Aaron Rodgers’s first pass of first team period was picked off
Mucky Tundra (24-Jul) : tbh I didn't hear of his passing
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Cosby Show. Malcom Jamal Warner I think is real name
Mucky Tundra (24-Jul) : I was thinking of Ozzy and Hulk
Mucky Tundra (24-Jul) : Who's Theo?
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : How is Theo alliteration?
Mucky Tundra (24-Jul) : Bad week for people whose names are alliterations
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Hulk Hogan gone too.
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Oh, it's toe injury
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Hope it's not serious. that would stink
dfosterf (24-Jul) : Sounds like an ankle not a knee for Fields
dfosterf (24-Jul) : Ya Flaccp on Browns
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Maybe Tyrod Taylor instead
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : He's on Browns, right?
dfosterf (24-Jul) : They would probably go with Flacco is my guess if Fields out
dfosterf (24-Jul) : Fleece 'em again!
Zero2Cool (24-Jul) : Malik Willis might be someone Jets come after
packerfanoutwest (24-Jul) : Packers introduce 1923-inspired classic uniform, leather-look helmet
Zero2Cool (23-Jul) : Both LB Quay Walker and Rookie DB Micah Robinson have passed their physicals
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dfosterf (23-Jul) : You didn't get free childcare when you were at work?
wpr (23-Jul) : These guys make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. Pay for their own childcare.
dfosterf (23-Jul) : 2nd issue. Number 1 issue was no gameday childcare. 1 of 3 teams not providing it
Zero2Cool (23-Jul) : Suppose if locker room is main issue, we sitting pretty
wpr (23-Jul) : I thought so Mucky. In those useless player polls GB always rates high overall. Locker is a part of it.
Mucky Tundra (23-Jul) : Wasn't the locker room just updated like 6 or 7 years ago?
Zero2Cool (23-Jul) : I have forum updated on different site. We'll see how this one goes before going to that
Zero2Cool (23-Jul) : Elgton Jenkins has a back injury, is expect to end contract dispute
wpr (23-Jul) : It's funny the PA complained about the locker room. It wasn't that long ago it was top shelf. Things change in a hurry.
wpr (23-Jul) : The site is much more better.
Zero2Cool (23-Jul) : NFLPA report said Packers lockerroom needed upgrade. Whining bout where you change?
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