musccy
14 years ago


Some of his most impressive work comes on plays not resulting in a sack.. ironic in sort of a sense.

"pack93z" wrote:



Cullen Jenkins can thank Clay for the sack credited to him, and as you say, he brings so much disruption to the play, rushing passes, collapsing the pocket, etc.

We have to temper our enthusiasm a little...look at what happened with Urlacher's career, but at the same time, it's so refreshing to have someone on the cusp of being a dominating presence on the D.

Nitschke, Butkus, Lewis, Taylor - their intensity influenced the players around them, and Clay seems to have that same effect this year.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Urlacher is having a really good season this year.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago

I don't give two shits if football players are on roids. If we were worried about ethics we would have to consider things like officials overlooking things on the field and gambling's influence on the game.

Let's get real here, the players cheat and will put anything into their that allow them to continue to play. Anybody think Favre is drug free, including roids and narcotics for the pain. The NFL drug policy is laughable.

If Clay ever gets busted for roids, will anyone be surprised? For now, let's just enjoy the case of whoop ass he brings to the field with him.

"DakotaT" wrote:



For me, it has little to do with the morality of it... it is the time they will be down if they get pinched.

Talk to the Buccaneers about it.. Johnson now has lost a season of play.

That is the part of throwing Bush under the bus like he is a leper in another thread, simply put, it isn't that programs, teams or players bend the rules.. it is whom gets caught. He is guilty and should have to pay the price.. but to bury him for it isn't correct either. Judgment accordingly and move forward.

It doesn't make it right.. it doesn't make it okay, and you certainly don't teach your kids upon that premise.. but those are the facts.

I'll be very honest, my first contact with 'roids was a 8th grade football camp in Sparta WI.. and if I could have afforded it, I would have been on them at that point because no matter how big and strong I was.. there was another kid stronger.. and it wasn't natural strength. I wanted that life in the worst way and had the size and talent for it.. but couldn't be the best verse guys that weren't naturally obtaining it.. so you have a choice to make.

My cousin played at UW-Stout.. that program had paid players and roids.. and that was a DIII school in the mid to late 80's... it is just the way it is.

Anyway... that is my only concern with it, they are an adult they can do personally to themselves as they wish.. is that we may lose their services.

But if we lose time from them because of their actions, don't expect sympathy from me for cheating the game.. whether or not thy neighbor does it. But in the same breath, don't bury him like he is the only guy doing it..

Example.. Jolly, will I root him on when or if he returns at some point? Hell yes... but I have no personal issue with him sitting the year because of his decisions that go against the rules and hurting the ball club.

I know it is sort of a twisted view of it.. but I own it.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
PackerTraxx
14 years ago
Discounting the roids, what a set of LBs USC had.

If these men use the consequences are their own and I don't feel sorry for them. What I don't like is when they use, there's a trickle down to college and high school. For that reason I feel the punishment should be harsh.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Though I personally have no interest in using steroids, I also have no moral objection to their use. There are a number of reasons why insinuations of steroid use not backed by evidence piss me off.

First, the people floating the idea usually do have moral or ethical objections to steroid use, so the allegations are a not-so-covert form of character assassination.

Second, strength training is a subject about which I am extremely passionate. It's not uncommon for me to spend literally hours a day studying the intricacies of the field and its underlying theory. The spastic recourse to the steroids theory any time someone demonstrates muscular gains puts the field of strength training in a bad light. It's not necessary to use steroids to gain muscle; the only thing steroids does is enable a person to exceed their natural genetic potential. There's no evidence whatsoever that Matthews has done that.

Third, the allegation is not parsimonious -- that is to say, it's not the simplest explanation of facts available. It therefore violates Occam's Razor. It also betrays a profound lack of understanding of human physiology and training theory.

Look at pictures of Clay Matthews III. He does not look like a man who has been abusing steroids. He is unbelievably cut. You can practically see every muscle fiber in his body. That only happens with extremely low body fat levels. Men on steroids, by contrast, tend to look puffy, because they retain so much water. The cut-and-ripped look characteristic of professionals bodybuilders (almost all of whom are on steroids) is only obtained with extreme dieting just before competitions or photo shoots. If anyone thinks Matthews is performing at an NFL level while on a severe caloric deficit, he is at best ignorant and at worst borderline insane.

As mentioned previously, steroids enable a man to exceed his genetic potential. Matthews does not look like he is in any way carrying an unnatural amount of weight. Yes, he is massive, but he just looks like he hits the gym extremely hard and consumes an enormous number of calories.

And that's my whole point. Anyone who thinks Matthews' weight gains are excessive (or even all that impressive) has simply never experienced the power of intense, fundamentally sound weight training. There is not an able-bodied man on this board who could not gain 60 pounds of solid muscle over four years, unless he is already an elite athlete. Most of the men on this board could probably gain those 60 pounds in less than two years. I guarantee I could easily put at least 20 and probably closer to 40 pounds of solid muscle on any one of you over the course of a summer alone, with a simple program of squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, rows and perhaps pullups, chinups, and dips.

Anyone you know who spends hours a week in the gym and never gets any bigger either a) doesn't eat enough, b) wastes all his time working the vanity muscles (pecs, bis, and abs) and ignores the massive muscles in his legs and back, or c) both.

Has Clay Matthews III ever used steroids? We will probably never know for certain. Could he have gained the muscle he has now without using them? Without question.

So until there's some evidence to the contrary, why don't we give him the benefit of the doubt?
UserPostedImage
musccy
14 years ago

Urlacher is having a really good season this year.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



True, but he's had an up and down career to this point with injuries, and Clay has had his fair share of injury concerns already.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
As for the argument, "Well, he's best friends with Brian Cushing," my response is: "So freaking what?"

Just last night I had over to my house the guy who's arguably my best friend on campus. He is drunk most of the time, he bakes up literally everyday, and he does the harder drugs as well. He was even a very successful dope dealer for quite a few years. Does that mean baked up or did lines of coke together? No, we each drank two bottles of import German pilsner, ate some vegetarian take-n-bake pizza, and watched a German movie. It was a pretty tame night to say the least.

The fact that I hang out with a self-admitted drug dealer doesn't mean I'm a drug user myself.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago
Again.. whom stated he was guilty?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
ILikeThePackers39
14 years ago

It burns me up every time someone assumes steroids because a man has put on muscle rapidly. Matthews went from 160 to, what, 220 in college? That's a gain of barely 15 pounds a year. And that's if you believe the media hype; according to Matthews himself, he weighed about 200 as a freshman. I gained 30 pounds last year in about three months. It's not that hard to do. I gained 10 pounds in the last month, five of which came in a single week. There is no reason why he couldn't have gained 15 pounds a year without steroids. World renowned strength coach Bill Starr was known for putting 40 pounds of muscle on his students in six months or less, and there are records of men gaining up to 100 pounds in a single year.

Hard training + tons of calories = rapid muscle gains

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:




I don't know that anyone here is assuming that - the sad fact is, though, that it's not his gains that prompt the speculation, but rather the simple association with his ex-teammate at USC (and the other fun things that have come to light about that program). We've come to simply expect these guys to be somehow flawed or bad people. Kinda sucks.
blank
musccy
14 years ago
Nonstop - recreational drug use compared to PEDs that give you a competitive advantage, or at least keep you on par with your competition, resulting in million dollar discrepancies in contracts are two different animals.

I'm much more familiar with EPO and blood doping in the running/cycling world, but I still think there are a lot of parallels. People keep trying to defend Lance, but there is SO much cirumstantial evidence surrounding him that you really have to try to turn a blind eye.

I don't know that there is as much steroid 'smoke' leading to a usc 'fire' but with such a notorious resume in recent years, in addition to one of his own teammates testing positive, it's difficult to at the very least not be suspicious.

With all of that said, IMOHO, drug use is rampant in pro sports, so it's all a level playing field, and whether clay is/n't dirty doesn't really concern me much.
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