musccy
14 years ago


Some of his most impressive work comes on plays not resulting in a sack.. ironic in sort of a sense.

"pack93z" wrote:



Cullen Jenkins can thank Clay for the sack credited to him, and as you say, he brings so much disruption to the play, rushing passes, collapsing the pocket, etc.

We have to temper our enthusiasm a little...look at what happened with Urlacher's career, but at the same time, it's so refreshing to have someone on the cusp of being a dominating presence on the D.

Nitschke, Butkus, Lewis, Taylor - their intensity influenced the players around them, and Clay seems to have that same effect this year.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
Urlacher is having a really good season this year.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago

I don't give two shits if football players are on roids. If we were worried about ethics we would have to consider things like officials overlooking things on the field and gambling's influence on the game.

Let's get real here, the players cheat and will put anything into their that allow them to continue to play. Anybody think Favre is drug free, including roids and narcotics for the pain. The NFL drug policy is laughable.

If Clay ever gets busted for roids, will anyone be surprised? For now, let's just enjoy the case of whoop ass he brings to the field with him.

"DakotaT" wrote:



For me, it has little to do with the morality of it... it is the time they will be down if they get pinched.

Talk to the Buccaneers about it.. Johnson now has lost a season of play.

That is the part of throwing Bush under the bus like he is a leper in another thread, simply put, it isn't that programs, teams or players bend the rules.. it is whom gets caught. He is guilty and should have to pay the price.. but to bury him for it isn't correct either. Judgment accordingly and move forward.

It doesn't make it right.. it doesn't make it okay, and you certainly don't teach your kids upon that premise.. but those are the facts.

I'll be very honest, my first contact with 'roids was a 8th grade football camp in Sparta WI.. and if I could have afforded it, I would have been on them at that point because no matter how big and strong I was.. there was another kid stronger.. and it wasn't natural strength. I wanted that life in the worst way and had the size and talent for it.. but couldn't be the best verse guys that weren't naturally obtaining it.. so you have a choice to make.

My cousin played at UW-Stout.. that program had paid players and roids.. and that was a DIII school in the mid to late 80's... it is just the way it is.

Anyway... that is my only concern with it, they are an adult they can do personally to themselves as they wish.. is that we may lose their services.

But if we lose time from them because of their actions, don't expect sympathy from me for cheating the game.. whether or not thy neighbor does it. But in the same breath, don't bury him like he is the only guy doing it..

Example.. Jolly, will I root him on when or if he returns at some point? Hell yes... but I have no personal issue with him sitting the year because of his decisions that go against the rules and hurting the ball club.

I know it is sort of a twisted view of it.. but I own it.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
PackerTraxx
14 years ago
Discounting the roids, what a set of LBs USC had.

If these men use the consequences are their own and I don't feel sorry for them. What I don't like is when they use, there's a trickle down to college and high school. For that reason I feel the punishment should be harsh.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Though I personally have no interest in using steroids, I also have no moral objection to their use. There are a number of reasons why insinuations of steroid use not backed by evidence piss me off.

First, the people floating the idea usually do have moral or ethical objections to steroid use, so the allegations are a not-so-covert form of character assassination.

Second, strength training is a subject about which I am extremely passionate. It's not uncommon for me to spend literally hours a day studying the intricacies of the field and its underlying theory. The spastic recourse to the steroids theory any time someone demonstrates muscular gains puts the field of strength training in a bad light. It's not necessary to use steroids to gain muscle; the only thing steroids does is enable a person to exceed their natural genetic potential. There's no evidence whatsoever that Matthews has done that.

Third, the allegation is not parsimonious -- that is to say, it's not the simplest explanation of facts available. It therefore violates Occam's Razor. It also betrays a profound lack of understanding of human physiology and training theory.

Look at pictures of Clay Matthews III. He does not look like a man who has been abusing steroids. He is unbelievably cut. You can practically see every muscle fiber in his body. That only happens with extremely low body fat levels. Men on steroids, by contrast, tend to look puffy, because they retain so much water. The cut-and-ripped look characteristic of professionals bodybuilders (almost all of whom are on steroids) is only obtained with extreme dieting just before competitions or photo shoots. If anyone thinks Matthews is performing at an NFL level while on a severe caloric deficit, he is at best ignorant and at worst borderline insane.

As mentioned previously, steroids enable a man to exceed his genetic potential. Matthews does not look like he is in any way carrying an unnatural amount of weight. Yes, he is massive, but he just looks like he hits the gym extremely hard and consumes an enormous number of calories.

And that's my whole point. Anyone who thinks Matthews' weight gains are excessive (or even all that impressive) has simply never experienced the power of intense, fundamentally sound weight training. There is not an able-bodied man on this board who could not gain 60 pounds of solid muscle over four years, unless he is already an elite athlete. Most of the men on this board could probably gain those 60 pounds in less than two years. I guarantee I could easily put at least 20 and probably closer to 40 pounds of solid muscle on any one of you over the course of a summer alone, with a simple program of squats, deadlifts, bench press, overhead press, rows and perhaps pullups, chinups, and dips.

Anyone you know who spends hours a week in the gym and never gets any bigger either a) doesn't eat enough, b) wastes all his time working the vanity muscles (pecs, bis, and abs) and ignores the massive muscles in his legs and back, or c) both.

Has Clay Matthews III ever used steroids? We will probably never know for certain. Could he have gained the muscle he has now without using them? Without question.

So until there's some evidence to the contrary, why don't we give him the benefit of the doubt?
UserPostedImage
musccy
14 years ago

Urlacher is having a really good season this year.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



True, but he's had an up and down career to this point with injuries, and Clay has had his fair share of injury concerns already.
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
As for the argument, "Well, he's best friends with Brian Cushing," my response is: "So freaking what?"

Just last night I had over to my house the guy who's arguably my best friend on campus. He is drunk most of the time, he bakes up literally everyday, and he does the harder drugs as well. He was even a very successful dope dealer for quite a few years. Does that mean baked up or did lines of coke together? No, we each drank two bottles of import German pilsner, ate some vegetarian take-n-bake pizza, and watched a German movie. It was a pretty tame night to say the least.

The fact that I hang out with a self-admitted drug dealer doesn't mean I'm a drug user myself.
UserPostedImage
Pack93z
14 years ago
Again.. whom stated he was guilty?
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
ILikeThePackers39
14 years ago

It burns me up every time someone assumes steroids because a man has put on muscle rapidly. Matthews went from 160 to, what, 220 in college? That's a gain of barely 15 pounds a year. And that's if you believe the media hype; according to Matthews himself, he weighed about 200 as a freshman. I gained 30 pounds last year in about three months. It's not that hard to do. I gained 10 pounds in the last month, five of which came in a single week. There is no reason why he couldn't have gained 15 pounds a year without steroids. World renowned strength coach Bill Starr was known for putting 40 pounds of muscle on his students in six months or less, and there are records of men gaining up to 100 pounds in a single year.

Hard training + tons of calories = rapid muscle gains

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:




I don't know that anyone here is assuming that - the sad fact is, though, that it's not his gains that prompt the speculation, but rather the simple association with his ex-teammate at USC (and the other fun things that have come to light about that program). We've come to simply expect these guys to be somehow flawed or bad people. Kinda sucks.
blank
musccy
14 years ago
Nonstop - recreational drug use compared to PEDs that give you a competitive advantage, or at least keep you on par with your competition, resulting in million dollar discrepancies in contracts are two different animals.

I'm much more familiar with EPO and blood doping in the running/cycling world, but I still think there are a lot of parallels. People keep trying to defend Lance, but there is SO much cirumstantial evidence surrounding him that you really have to try to turn a blind eye.

I don't know that there is as much steroid 'smoke' leading to a usc 'fire' but with such a notorious resume in recent years, in addition to one of his own teammates testing positive, it's difficult to at the very least not be suspicious.

With all of that said, IMOHO, drug use is rampant in pro sports, so it's all a level playing field, and whether clay is/n't dirty doesn't really concern me much.
Fan Shout
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Beats the hell out of a Vikings signing
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : Baltimore Ravens now have signed former Packers CB Jaire Alexander.
dfosterf (14-Jun) : TWO magnificent strikes for touchdowns. Lose the pennstate semigeezer non nfl backup
dfosterf (14-Jun) : There was minicamp Thursday. My man Taylor Engersma threw
dfosterf (11-Jun) : There will be a mini camp practice Thursday.
Zero2Cool (11-Jun) : He's been sporting a ring for a while now. It's probably Madonna.
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : We only do the tea before whoopee, it relaxes me.
wpr (10-Jun) : That's awesome Martha.
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : How's the ayahuasca tea he makes, Martha?
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : Turns out he like older women
Martha Careful (10-Jun) : I wasn't supposed to say anything, but yes the word is out and we are happy 😂😂😂
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : I might be late on this but Aaron Rodgers is now married
Mucky Tundra (10-Jun) : Well he can always ask his brother for pointers
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : Bo Melton taking some reps at CB as well as WR
Zero2Cool (10-Jun) : key transactions coming today at 3pm that will consume more cap in 2025
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jaire played in just 34 of a possible 68 games since the start of the 2021 season
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : reported, but not expected to practice
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : Jenkins has REPORTED for mandatory camp
Zero2Cool (9-Jun) : I really thought he'd play for Packers.
buckeyepackfan (9-Jun) : Packers releasing Jaire Alexander.
Mucky Tundra (8-Jun) : (Context: he wants his defense to create turnovers)
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

20-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

18-Jun / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

16-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

15-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

14-Jun / Around The NFL / beast

14-Jun / Community Welcome! / dfosterf

13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

13-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Adam

12-Jun / Random Babble / Martha Careful

12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

12-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.