doddpower
14 years ago

Failing to meet expectations... what else would you call it?

Okay.. don't like bust.. then how about underachieving. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:



Failing to meet expectations is not what I call a bust. It's not living up to the hype, which is not desirable, but still could be much worse. The guy is a reliable player, fights through injuries, switches positions when necessary, etc. He might not be the best, but the coaches can depend on him.

I have heard your arguments many many times over the past few years. I agree with a lot of what you say, but obviously our definitions of "bust" are different. Hype is just what it is: hype. At this point, I would consider Justin Harrell a bust.
zombieslayer
14 years ago

Failing to meet expectations... what else would you call it?

Okay.. don't like bust.. then how about underachieving. ;)

"pack93z" wrote:



OK, I'm fine with underachieving.

Thanks for defining what you say bust but keep in mind that most people would argue with your definition (and for once, I'd take the majority opinion on something). By your definition of bust, half the first round picks drafted would be busts.
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Pack93z
14 years ago

By your definition of bust, half the first round picks drafted would be busts.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



And I would happen to agree. Go through the last couple of seasons.. there are players a heck of a lot worse that Hawk and greater busts, but all of them to some degree or another failed to due what they were drafted to do.

If you are drafted in the first round, the expectations are higher thus the compensation is higher.. and the plain truth of it is most first rounders don't meet their expectations.. I have no doubt about that.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Packers_Finland
14 years ago
No matter how high he was drafted, a 5-year starter who doens't completely suck is not a bust in my book.
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Zero2Cool
14 years ago
lol Hawk isn't a bust, no he's not an elite LB, but no one predicted him to be one coming out of college. Correction, I didn't hear anyone say he would be elite. I heard Hawk was a above average talent that had a low ceiling and was a safe pick. That whomever drafted him, knew what they were getting.

We knew not to expect Lawrence Taylor so when he doesn't live up to that, you can't call him a bust ... in MY book... which has lots of pictures cuz words confuse me.
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Pack93z
14 years ago
Whom expected Hawk to be a Taylor type?

Yes we was labeled a safe pick.. because you would get production from him and we have.. no one is saying he hasn't.

That was a piss poor draft overall.. and we are lucky we don't have a major bust on our hands.. agreed.

But Hawk has not played up to his talent.. and that isn't because the talent itself is there.. personally it is on the mental side of the game and I have to believe, when we see others there as well, the positional coaching.

Go watch some footage of Hawk in college vs the pro.. he doesn't look like the same player.. in college he attacked.. here he reacts.

And that is where the disappointment in his game comes in.. and where he hasn't lived up to expectations.

Call it what you want.. maybe it is fear of the word bust.. but even the coaches tell you he has to turn it loose and play more aggressively..
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
I'm no expert, but I do agree that Hawk hesitates before attacking, which often leaves him out of place.
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doddpower
14 years ago

Whom expected Hawk to be a Taylor type?

Yes we was labeled a safe pick.. because you would get production from him and we have.. no one is saying he hasn't.

That was a piss poor draft overall.. and we are lucky we don't have a major bust on our hands.. agreed.

But Hawk has not played up to his talent.. and that isn't because the talent itself is there.. personally it is on the mental side of the game and I have to believe, when we see others there as well, the positional coaching.

Go watch some footage of Hawk in college vs the pro.. he doesn't look like the same player.. in college he attacked.. here he reacts.

And that is where the disappointment in his game comes in.. and where he hasn't lived up to expectations.

Call it what you want.. maybe it is fear of the word bust.. but even the coaches tell you he has to turn it loose and play more aggressively..

"pack93z" wrote:



I agree he may look like a different player, but one must remember that the NFL is essentially a different game. Everyone's faster, stronger, and smarter. I don't think there is anyway to quantify these aspects of the NFL vs. Hawks college performance.
Wade
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14 years ago
"Bust" -- an area where doubleD is overrated and A is accurate.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Lynn_Dickey
14 years ago

Do I feel sorry for Harrell? No not really for reasons already stated.

However, there is a difference between Tony Mandarich and Justin Harrell. Harrell has been hurt. He hasn't seen the field, but when he's on the field, I've seen more out of him than C.J. Wilson or Jarius Wynn.

Mandarich was a complete bust. He couldn't cut it as a LT. He ended up in Indy as a guard and was alright for awhile, but there is a difference between the two players. One is a bust because of skill and the other is a bust because of injury.

I pretty much agree with what CaliforniaCheez said.

I think they'll keep six or seven DL. Seven with Toribio, who I've been impressed enough with to keep on the team. Right now, you can only justify Wilson or Wynn above Harrell because of injuries/confidence.

"Lynn_Dickey" wrote:


THe point wasn't that they were the same type of player, the point was that I am sick of excuses when the truth is obvous. Harrell gets hurt a lot!!! FACT. McCarthy says you need to be available and accountable. Harrell has not been available and there are tons of excuses why not. (I will forgive the wife/baby thing). I am willing to bet that Harrell either won't make the 53 man roster, or will get hurt so that he is not available for 8 games or more. If I am wrong, I will leave this forum. If I am right, you will all have to post that Lynn Dickey was the best deep throwing QB the pack has ever had!!!!!! Ahhhh '82 was a fun year!!!

"porky88" wrote:


Well I guess I can come back now. Please look at Harrell without emotion, when you do, you will see that it was wrong to believe he would make it through a season. Now look at Bush without emotion. He is not very good. Sorry
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
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TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
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beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
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TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
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packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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