Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

I am going to disagree on the CB thing.

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:



really? i'm not. remember my thread a few months ago where everybody decided to show me how much of a homer they were? i'm still stickin' to my gut feeling.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I'm not saying it because I have an indigenous opinion or anything to do with my visceral sensations.

I thought the only reason the secondary struggled was the injuries. If you took Jennings and 3 backup receivers out in the middle of the season, our offense would struggle as much as our secondary did. And we have one of, if not the deepest wide receiver corps in the league. I don't see why they wouldn't be back to normal if they all returned.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

w/ Al Harris 6 - 4
w/o Al Harris 5 - 1

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



I don't think it is cause and effect. The O-line and the Safeties being down to third string probably had more to do with it than Harris.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I didn't say it was cause or effect. I was just posting the numbers in case anyone else was curious as myself. :)

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



The second line is the important one? We went 5-1 even without Harris. Without 4 of our 6 CBs actually.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago
4 Cornerbacks were out? I remember Harris, Lee and Blackmon. I can't think of the 4th.

Harris was the only starter. So losing Lee and Blackmon didn't really hurt our secondary as much as the statement implies.


Edit, what was our depth chart at CB?
Charles Woodson
Al Harris IR
Tramon Williams
Will Blackmon IR
Patrick Lee IR
Jarett Bush
Brandon Underwood

Woodson, Williams, Bush and Underwood were available, as well as I believe Josh Bell who was added mid season, I think.
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Dexter_Sinister
14 years ago

4 Cornerbacks were out? I remember Harris, Lee and Blackmon. I can't think of the 4th.

Harris was the only starter. So losing Lee and Blackmon didn't really hurt our secondary as much as the statement implies.


Edit, what was our depth chart at CB?
Charles Woodson
Al Harris IR
Tramon Williams
Will Blackmon IR
Patrick Lee IR
Jarett Bush
Brandon Underwood

Woodson, Williams, Bush and Underwood were available, as well as I believe Josh Bell who was added mid season, I think.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Underwood was out for 1 game, the 15th week I believe, when we lost to Pitt. He was on the injury report for 3 weeks with a hip injury.

Losing Harris, Blackmon, Lee and Underwood made it so Bush and Bell were in as the Nickle and Dime or for most of the game. That may be why Rothlesberger had 500 yards.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Zero2Cool
14 years ago

Underwood was out for 1 game, the 15th week I believe, when we lost to Pitt. He was on the injury report for 3 weeks with a hip injury.

Losing Harris, Blackmon, Lee and Underwood made it so Bush and Bell were in as the Nickle and Dime or for most of the game. That may be why Rothlesberger had 500 yards.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



Okay, I've had it with this excuse.

Brandon Underwood missed several games WHILE Harris was still on the field. Underwood missed one game since the week five bye, the Steeler game. Hardly the reason we lost.

The comment of four of six CB's were out is a bunch of bull.


The only injury to our secondary that really hurt was losing Al Harris.
Blackmon's impact is as a returner.
Lee has had little to no impact.

If you look it up, many teams lost a few CB's for several games during the season.


Having our 4th and 5th CB's out is hardly an excuse or reason our passing defense was scorched by teams such as Vikings, Cardinals, and Steelers.

They took advantage of a hole in the passing defense, the middle of the field, short quick passes. We weren't applying enough pressure on the QB. That is why we got torched.

Would Harris' presence made much of a difference? I doubt it and I think Harris is a good 3 corner.

I sure as hell hope the Packers aren't banking on Lee and Blackmon to fix the passing defense. It's the scheme coupled with little to no consistent pass rush.

The 3 - 4 NEEDS a pass rush to be effective.
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porky88
14 years ago

Interestingly, the one big lineup change--putting Raji at the nose and moving Pickett to DE--seems like a move that was made mainly to improve the run defense, by beefing up the line and protecting Brad Jones. I don't think Pickett will rush the passer quite as well as Jolly did.

"Greg C." wrote:



Actually, I see it as a move that could potentially help the pass defense. Raji is lining up at NT because of his ability to rush the passer. The NT is the closes defender to the QB, which means his path is the easiest. The best way to disrupt a passer is to penetrate up the middle. If Raji does that, the pass rush will improve.

Also, Pickett is a big space eater and Jones will get to play behind that. In theory, Pickett could take up two blockers, which will leave Jones in a lot of one on one situations. This will allow him to fly to the football a lot more and hopefully rush the passer.

For me, the best way to solve the pass defense is to develop a more consistent pass rush. I believe that's what the Packers are banking on with these two positional changes.
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bozz_2006
14 years ago
Worked for the Giants a couple years ago.
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Rockmolder
14 years ago

Underwood was out for 1 game, the 15th week I believe, when we lost to Pitt. He was on the injury report for 3 weeks with a hip injury.

Losing Harris, Blackmon, Lee and Underwood made it so Bush and Bell were in as the Nickle and Dime or for most of the game. That may be why Rothlesberger had 500 yards.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Okay, I've had it with this excuse.

Brandon Underwood missed several games WHILE Harris was still on the field. Underwood missed one game since the week five bye, the Steeler game. Hardly the reason we lost.

The comment of four of six CB's were out is a bunch of bull.


The only injury to our secondary that really hurt was losing Al Harris.
Blackmon's impact is as a returner.
Lee has had little to no impact.

If you look it up, many teams lost a few CB's for several games during the season.


Having our 4th and 5th CB's out is hardly an excuse or reason our passing defense was scorched by teams such as Vikings, Cardinals, and Steelers.

They took advantage of a hole in the passing defense, the middle of the field, short quick passes. We weren't applying enough pressure on the QB. That is why we got torched.

Would Harris' presence made much of a difference? I doubt it and I think Harris is a good 3 corner.

I sure as hell hope the Packers aren't banking on Lee and Blackmon to fix the passing defense. It's the scheme coupled with little to no consistent pass rush.

The 3 - 4 NEEDS a pass rush to be effective.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:



I agree that our pass rush has been lacking. Heck, I've been having quite some discussions about that. Without a pass rush you don't get anywhere.

However, I think that losing all those CBs did have quite an impact. I don't think that anyone here thinks that Lee and Blackmon are great cover corners, but it does take two guys out of the corner chain.

I believe that the depth chart would've looked something like Woodson - Harris - Williams - Lee - Blackmon - Bush - Underwood.

You can just throw those last 3 around, I figure.

Of course taking Harris out makes the biggest impact. You take one of your best guys off the field, bump your excellent nickel CB into a starting role, in which he is good, but not great, and bump the rest of the CBs up one spot, as well.

But then you take out both Lee and Blackmon and you have Bush on the 3rd WR, or even a starter when Woodson is on the TE.

I can't guarantee that Lee would've done a better job, since I haven't seen him play a whole lot either, but seeing how he's been playing in OTAs and training camps, he must've done a better job than Bush.
Greg C.
14 years ago

Interestingly, the one big lineup change--putting Raji at the nose and moving Pickett to DE--seems like a move that was made mainly to improve the run defense, by beefing up the line and protecting Brad Jones. I don't think Pickett will rush the passer quite as well as Jolly did.

"porky88" wrote:



Actually, I see it as a move that could potentially help the pass defense. Raji is lining up at NT because of his ability to rush the passer. The NT is the closes defender to the QB, which means his path is the easiest. The best way to disrupt a passer is to penetrate up the middle. If Raji does that, the pass rush will improve.

Also, Pickett is a big space eater and Jones will get to play behind that. In theory, Pickett could take up two blockers, which will leave Jones in a lot of one on one situations. This will allow him to fly to the football a lot more and hopefully rush the passer.

For me, the best way to solve the pass defense is to develop a more consistent pass rush. I believe that's what the Packers are banking on with these two positional changes.

"Greg C." wrote:



Yeah, that must be what they are hoping for. If Raji can be a pass rushing force in the middle, as he was in college, it will work. That remains to be seen. And it's hard for me to see Pickett commanding any more attention as a pass rusher than Jolly did.

It is still easier for me to see the benefits of this change for the run defense, though, rather than the pass defense, especially considering that they will most likely be switching into a different formation in long yardage situations.
blank
PackerTraxx
14 years ago
Pass defense, specifically, CB and consistent pass rush were the Packer's weakess areas last year and the biggest question marks this year. However, it remains to be seen if they are an actual weakness this year. One could argue Woody and Pickett could fall off some this year. However, Raji, Matthews, Jones, Williams, and Underwood should just as argueably be better. Add a healthy Bigby, Neal, Burnett, Lee, and Blackmon to the mix it can't hurt. Plus, a years experience with the 3-4 has to help. The time that Jolly is gone will likey have the most impact. I still see many more positives than negatives.
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