Packers' weakness: Pass defense· Page 2

Dexter_Sinister
Registered

14 years ago

I am going to disagree on the CB thing.

"TwinkieGorilla" wrote:

really? i'm not. remember my thread a few months ago where everybody decided to show me how much of a homer they were? i'm still stickin' to my gut feeling.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:

I'm not saying it because I have an indigenous opinion or anything to do with my visceral sensations.

I thought the only reason the secondary struggled was the injuries. If you took Jennings and 3 backup receivers out in the middle of the season, our offense would struggle as much as our secondary did. And we have one of, if not the deepest wide receiver corps in the league. I don't see why they wouldn't be back to normal if they all returned.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

Dexter_Sinister
Registered

14 years ago

#12

w/ Al Harris 6 - 4
w/o Al Harris 5 - 1

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

I don't think it is cause and effect. The O-line and the Safeties being down to third string probably had more to do with it than Harris.

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:

I didn't say it was cause or effect. I was just posting the numbers in case anyone else was curious as myself. :)

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

The second line is the important one? We went 5-1 even without Harris. Without 4 of our 6 CBs actually.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#13

4 Cornerbacks were out? I remember Harris, Lee and Blackmon. I can't think of the 4th.

Harris was the only starter. So losing Lee and Blackmon didn't really hurt our secondary as much as the statement implies.

Edit, what was our depth chart at CB?
Charles Woodson
Al Harris IR
Tramon Williams
Will Blackmon IR
Patrick Lee IR
Jarett Bush
Brandon Underwood

Woodson, Williams, Bush and Underwood were available, as well as I believe Josh Bell who was added mid season, I think.

Dexter_Sinister
Registered

14 years ago

#14

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

Underwood was out for 1 game, the 15th week I believe, when we lost to Pitt. He was on the injury report for 3 weeks with a hip injury.

Losing Harris, Blackmon, Lee and Underwood made it so Bush and Bell were in as the Nickle and Dime or for most of the game. That may be why Rothlesberger had 500 yards.

I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

14 years ago

#15

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:

Okay, I've had it with this excuse.

Brandon Underwood missed several games WHILE Harris was still on the field. Underwood missed one game since the week five bye, the Steeler game. Hardly the reason we lost.

The comment of four of six CB's were out is a bunch of bull.

The only injury to our secondary that really hurt was losing Al Harris.
Blackmon's impact is as a returner.
Lee has had little to no impact.

If you look it up, many teams lost a few CB's for several games during the season.

Having our 4th and 5th CB's out is hardly an excuse or reason our passing defense was scorched by teams such as Vikings, Cardinals, and Steelers.

They took advantage of a hole in the passing defense, the middle of the field, short quick passes. We weren't applying enough pressure on the QB. That is why we got torched.

Would Harris' presence made much of a difference? I doubt it and I think Harris is a good 3 corner.

I sure as hell hope the Packers aren't banking on Lee and Blackmon to fix the passing defense. It's the scheme coupled with little to no consistent pass rush.

The 3 - 4 NEEDS a pass rush to be effective.

porky88
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#16

Interestingly, the one big lineup change--putting Raji at the nose and moving Pickett to DE--seems like a move that was made mainly to improve the run defense, by beefing up the line and protecting Brad Jones. I don't think Pickett will rush the passer quite as well as Jolly did.

"Greg C." wrote:

Actually, I see it as a move that could potentially help the pass defense. Raji is lining up at NT because of his ability to rush the passer. The NT is the closes defender to the QB, which means his path is the easiest. The best way to disrupt a passer is to penetrate up the middle. If Raji does that, the pass rush will improve.

Also, Pickett is a big space eater and Jones will get to play behind that. In theory, Pickett could take up two blockers, which will leave Jones in a lot of one on one situations. This will allow him to fly to the football a lot more and hopefully rush the passer.

For me, the best way to solve the pass defense is to develop a more consistent pass rush. I believe that's what the Packers are banking on with these two positional changes.

http://www.row12.com/

bozz_2006
Registered

14 years ago

#17

Worked for the Giants a couple years ago.

Rockmolder
Honored Member

14 years ago

#18

"Zero2Cool" wrote:

"Dexter_Sinister" wrote:

I agree that our pass rush has been lacking. Heck, I've been having quite some discussions about that. Without a pass rush you don't get anywhere.

However, I think that losing all those CBs did have quite an impact. I don't think that anyone here thinks that Lee and Blackmon are great cover corners, but it does take two guys out of the corner chain.

I believe that the depth chart would've looked something like Woodson - Harris - Williams - Lee - Blackmon - Bush - Underwood.

You can just throw those last 3 around, I figure.

Of course taking Harris out makes the biggest impact. You take one of your best guys off the field, bump your excellent nickel CB into a starting role, in which he is good, but not great, and bump the rest of the CBs up one spot, as well.

But then you take out both Lee and Blackmon and you have Bush on the 3rd WR, or even a starter when Woodson is on the TE.

I can't guarantee that Lee would've done a better job, since I haven't seen him play a whole lot either, but seeing how he's been playing in OTAs and training camps, he must've done a better job than Bush.

Greg C.
Registered

14 years ago

#19

"porky88" wrote:

"Greg C." wrote:

Yeah, that must be what they are hoping for. If Raji can be a pass rushing force in the middle, as he was in college, it will work. That remains to be seen. And it's hard for me to see Pickett commanding any more attention as a pass rusher than Jolly did.

It is still easier for me to see the benefits of this change for the run defense, though, rather than the pass defense, especially considering that they will most likely be switching into a different formation in long yardage situations.

blank

PackerTraxx
Senior Member

14 years ago

#20

Pass defense, specifically, CB and consistent pass rush were the Packer's weakess areas last year and the biggest question marks this year. However, it remains to be seen if they are an actual weakness this year. One could argue Woody and Pickett could fall off some this year. However, Raji, Matthews, Jones, Williams, and Underwood should just as argueably be better. Add a healthy Bigby, Neal, Burnett, Lee, and Blackmon to the mix it can't hurt. Plus, a years experience with the 3-4 has to help. The time that Jolly is gone will likey have the most impact. I still see many more positives than negatives.

Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?

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Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....

beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago

beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems

beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason

beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half

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