Zero2Cool
15 years ago
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Are the Green Bay Packers better off now than five years ago when Ted Thompson was hired as general manager?

The record says yes. Thompson inherited a 10-6 team coming off a first-round playoff loss when he replaced Mike Sherman as GM in January 2005. Five years later, Thompson has an 11-5 team also coming off a first-round playoff defeat.

A one-game improvement in the standings doesnt seem like much, but a comparison of the Packers roster in 2005 and today indicates, on paper at least, an improved team with greater potential.

In a subjective assessment, the Packers have improved at 11 of the 22 starting positions, gotten worse at seven spots and stayed the same at four others. At three positions tight end, nose tackle and one cornerback spot the Packers are significantly better. They also have upgraded their depth.

Here is an analysis of how the Packers compare (better, worse, same) to five years ago. Players during the 2004 season Shermans last as GM were matched up against the current roster.

Starting offense
Quarterback: Brett Favre lovers will squawk, but the numbers suggest Aaron Rodgers (30 touchdowns, 7 interceptions, 103.2 rating, 4,434 yards) is an upgrade over a 35-year-old Favre during the 2004 season (30 TDs, 17 INTs, 92.4 rating, 4,088 yards). BETTER

Running back: Ahman Green was in his prime and coming off a fifth consecutive 1,000-yard season (1,163 yards, 4.5 average). Ryan Grants rushing numbers are similar (1,253, 4.4), but Green was a bigger pass-catching threat (40 receptions compared to Grants 25). WORSE

Fullback: Theres not much difference between an aging William Henderson and the John Kuhn-Korey Hall combo at the least consequential starting position. SAME

No. 1 receiver: Javon Walker had one breakout season but flamed out quickly. Consistency gives Greg Jennings the edge. BETTER

No. 2 receiver: Its only natural that a 29-year-old Donald Driver (84 catches, 1,208 yards) had a little more spring in his step than he does now (70, 1,061), but there isnt a huge gap. WORSE

Tight end: The difference between Jermichael Finley (55 catches, 676 yards) and Bubba Franks (34, 361) is like night and day. MUCH BETTER

Left tackle: Until rookie first-round draft pick Bryan Bulaga proves otherwise, Chad Clifton remains the starter. But he is older, slower and more injury prone. WORSE

Left guard: Daryn Colledge hasnt come close to filling Mike Wahles shoes. If Wahle was a size 12, Colledge wears a size 9. WORSE

Center: Ill take my chances with Scott Wells over Grey Ruegamer. BETTER

Right guard: Thompson has been chastised for letting Marco Rivera go in 2005, but it was the right move. I favor a youthful Josh Sitton over a long-in-the-tooth Rivera. BETTER

Right tackle: As with Clifton, its admirable that Mark Tauscher is still around, but hes no longer in his prime. WORSE

Starting defense
Primary pass rusher: This designation will help in comparing the current 3-4 defense to the Packers former 4-3 scheme. Right defensive end Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila was a sack machine in his prime but one-dimensional, and thus right outside linebacker Clay Matthews receives the nod. BETTER

Defensive end: Johnny Jolly is versatile and can be a force but has stiff competition against Aaron Kampman entering his best years. WORSE

Nose tackle: Grady Jackson doesnt reside in the same ZIP code as Ryan Pickett and B.J. Raji. MUCH BETTER

Defensive line: I will take Cullen Jenkins over Cletidus Hunt any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But then, I would take just about anyone over the underachieving Hunt. BETTER

Middle linebacker: Nick Barnett still is the starter after all these years, and despite a potentially devastating knee injury in 2008, can still bring it. SAME

Linebacker: Brad Jones has only half a season of starting experience under his belt, but he looks good compared to Hannibal Navies. BETTER

Linebacker: A.J. Hawk gets criticized for not making enough plays, but his stock soars when matched up against Nail Diggs. BETTER

Cornerback: Five years and one serious knee injury have taken their toll on Al Harris. He cant possibly be as good, can he? WORSE

Cornerback: Ahmad Carroll vs. Charles Woodson? Thats like comparing my dandelion-infested back yard to Lambeau Field. MUCH BETTER

Free safety: Take your pick between two Pro Bowl-caliber players in Darren Sharper and Nick Collins. SAME

Strong safety: Atari Bigby has struggled the past two seasons, but hes a cut above Mark Roman. BETTER
Backup depth

Defense: Five years ago, bench players included R-Kal Truluck on the line, Paris Lenon and Steve Josue at linebacker, and Michael Hawthorne, Joey Thomas, Jason Horton, Chris Johnson and Bhawoh Jue in the secondary. Today, Tramon Williams is vastly better than Hawthorne as the No. 3 cornerback, and quality players like Raji and linebackers Brandon Chillar and Desmond Bishop cant even crack the starting lineup. BETTER

Offense: The 53-man playoff roster in January 2005 included Sean McHugh and Ben Steele at tight end, Robert Ferguson, Antonio Chatman and Andrae Thurman at receiver, and Steve Morley and Brad Bedell on the line. No wonder the Packers went out with barely a whimper in a first-round postseason loss to the Minnesota Vikings at Lambeau. BETTER
Other areas

Special teams: Other than kicker Ryan Longwell, the Packers special teams were mediocre five years ago, yet Thompson has failed to upgrade those units. SAME

Coaching: Mike McCarthy in four seasons has the same winning percentage (38-26, .594) as Mike Sherman in six seasons (57-39, .594). McCarthy gets the edge because he advanced to the NFC title game, while Sherman never got past the divisional round of the playoffs. BETTER


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IronMan
15 years ago
Hmmm, I thought Vandermause hated TT? :shrug: (that sarcasm was directed at Nonstopdrivel and get_louder_at_lambeau.)
Greg C.
15 years ago
A pretty good meat-and-potatoes sort of article by Vandermause. I agree with his assessment. The improvement is especially noticeable when you look at the depth on the roster.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
IronMan, I have actually defended Vandermause in the past. My problem with him is that he's overly reactionary. His opinions seem to swing wildly from one week or month to the next. Right now he's up on Ted Thompson, but if the team starts out the season with a string of two or three defeats, he'll be the first to spear Thompson on a spit and roast him over an open fire. And then if they win the next six in a row, he'll be nominating Thompson for Executive of the Year. He rarely seems to have a long-term focus.

But yes, more often than not, he's laudatory of Thompson.
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DakotaT
15 years ago
I like comparison stuff like this. It makes you truly appreciate how good our 96 season was and how hard it is to put together a team like that.

I would say we are better than 5 years ago because of one thing: we can now hang with any team in the league, and I'm sorry but Sherman's teams in my opinion were always soft. Offensively we are similar, except Sherman always made sure the quarterback was vertical and we could run the ball. Defensively is where we differ. Today we have legitimate starters in every position except one of the safeties. Sherman's team had a weak defense.
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

I like comparison stuff like this. It makes you truly appreciate how good our 96 season was and how hard it is to put together a team like that.

I would say we are better than 5 years ago because of one thing: we can now hang with any team in the league, and I'm sorry but Sherman's teams in my opinion were always soft. Offensively we are similar, except Sherman always made sure the quarterback was vertical and we could run the ball. Defensively is where we differ. Today we have legitimate starters in every position except one of the safeties. Sherman's team had a weak defense.

"DakotaT" wrote:



And that was one of the reasons that I was surprised that we went with another offensive coach in McCarthy.

If I'd have a strong offense in place, I'd want to go with a defensive coach who can turn that defense around.

Pretty much like the defesively strong Buccaneers trading for Gruden or the defensive powerhouse Ravens hiring Billick.

Not that I'm unhappy with McCarthy. I like what he's been doing. He's a good coach on offense and made some nice hires for the defensive side. It's just not a hire that I would've made.
Greg C.
15 years ago

IronMan, I have actually defended Vandermause in the past. My problem with him is that he's overly reactionary. His opinions seem to swing wildly from one week or month to the next. Right now he's up on Ted Thompson, but if the team starts out the season with a string of two or three defeats, he'll be the first to spear Thompson on a spit and roast him over an open fire. And then if they win the next six in a row, he'll be nominating Thompson for Executive of the Year. He rarely seems to have a long-term focus.

But yes, more often than not, he's laudatory of Thompson.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I think Vandermause just calls it as he sees it. His opinion vacillates depending on the team's performance, but he doesn't seem to ever get too extreme one way or another. So I'm fine with it. He does have a distinct preference for building through the draft, which is why he tends to be positive about Ted Thompson and critical of Vikings' management.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

I like comparison stuff like this. It makes you truly appreciate how good our 96 season was and how hard it is to put together a team like that.

I would say we are better than 5 years ago because of one thing: we can now hang with any team in the league, and I'm sorry but Sherman's teams in my opinion were always soft. Offensively we are similar, except Sherman always made sure the quarterback was vertical and we could run the ball. Defensively is where we differ. Today we have legitimate starters in every position except one of the safeties. Sherman's team had a weak defense.

"DakotaT" wrote:



I like this stuff too.

The other problem with Sherman teams is we were always one injury away from complete disaster.

The biggest difference in that list is Woody vs A**** C******. Although Sherman's teams had Pro Bowlers, we also had people who were Arena League level.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
15 years ago

Hmmm, I thought Vandermause hated Ted Thompson? :shrug: (that sarcasm was directed at Nonstopdrivel and get_louder_at_lambeau.)

"IronMan" wrote:



That's Greg Bedard. Vandermause is just not a very good sportswriter in my opinion. I just don't think he's very bright.
warhawk
15 years ago
The thing about writers that drives me nuts is they just don't get it how important depth is. Every year they want to look at the starting 22 and then determine how they will fair.

The problem with that is the starting 22 is NEVER the ending 22. Near the end of the season when ALL teams have had to replace a significant number of players due to injury that starting group doesn't look close to the same most often.

This guy talks about the starting lineups and how 15 positions are better or the same. How about the next 22? I can tell you without hesitation that if you put the guys we have now up against who was there in '05 the current backups would beat the dog crap out of those guys.

Many of these guys are in rotations and have a huge impact on overall play. You have nickle and dime packages, DL rotations, and different WR sets. When you start getting into that there is just no comparison.
"The train is leaving the station."
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Zero2Cool (17-Aug) : Brewers streak ends at 14
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Zero2Cool (14-Aug) : Packers RB Josh Jacobs ranked No. 33 in NFL 'Top 100'
dfosterf (13-Aug) : The LVN Musgrave collision- Andy Herman said Musgrave seemed to be the one most impacted injury-wise
dfosterf (13-Aug) : a lower back injury
dfosterf (13-Aug) : Doubs says he's "fine" after injury scare. Some reported it as z
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : With LVN that is; need to see what happens in the next practice
Mucky Tundra (13-Aug) : beast, reading about what happened, it sounded like one of those "two guys collide and are moving slow afterwards" type of deals
beast (12-Aug) : I believe Musgrave has been injured every single season since at least a Sophomore in highschool
packerfanoutwest (12-Aug) : Matt LaFleur: “Highly unlikely” Jordan Love plays more this preseason
dfosterf (12-Aug) : Doubs, Savion Williams, LVN, Musgrave all banged up to one degree or another, missing one here I forget
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : RB Tyrion Davis-Price is signing with the Green Bay Packers.
Zero2Cool (12-Aug) : zero help, dominated. preseason
beast (12-Aug) : QB Jordan Love has surgery
beast (12-Aug) : Martha said Morgan had a lot of help, I didn't watch the OL so I can't say.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers LT Jordan Morgan did not allow a single pressure across 23 pass-blocking snaps vs. Jets last night, per PFF
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : With buckeye and the reasonable couple, we're currently sitting at 10
buckeyepackfan (10-Aug) : Just posted to re-up on our FFL.
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : If healthy after, then thats all I care. Well, no drops would be nice
wpr (10-Aug) : I made it through the 1st Q.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Just gotta figure out how.
dfosterf (10-Aug) : Could have been a worse start, so there is that.
beast (10-Aug) : Yeah, someone tell the Packers football season has started, seems like they weren't ready for it
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : Sooooooo many penalties
Mucky Tundra (10-Aug) : It may only be preseason, but this game is a trip to the dentist
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Packers do bad -- FREAK OUT!!!!!!
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dfosterf (10-Aug) : Well that half was fun
Zero2Cool (10-Aug) : Great, zayne is down
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : 13 minutes away from kickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkoffff
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Had Celebration of Life for my uncle up north. wicked rain hope it dont come south
Mucky Tundra (9-Aug) : THE GREEN BAY PACKERS ARE PLAYING FOOTBALL TONIGHT!!!!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!!!
Zero2Cool (9-Aug) : Woo-hoo
TheKanataThrilla (9-Aug) : NFL Network is broadcasting the game tonight, but not in Canada. Not sure why as no local television is showing the game.
beast (8-Aug) : But the Return from IR designations had to be applied by the 53 man cutdown.
beast (8-Aug) : It's a new rule, so it's not clear, but my understanding was that they could be IR'd at any time
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : *had to be IRed at 53
Mucky Tundra (8-Aug) : beast, I thought the designate return from IR players had to be IR at cutdowns to 53, not before
beast (8-Aug) : It's a brand new rule, either last season or this season, prior, all pre-season IRs were done for the season
beast (8-Aug) : But the Packers would have to use one for their return from IR spots on him, when they cut down to 53.
beast (8-Aug) : I think the NFL recently changed the IR rules, so maybe the season might not be over for OL Glover.
Zero2Cool (8-Aug) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
dfosterf (8-Aug) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
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