Rockmolder
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15 years ago
Belgium moves to become first European country to ban the burka 

By Mail Foreign Service

Belgium is on the verge of becoming the first European nation to ban the burka.

A parliamentary committee agreed yesterday to outlaw the wearing of face-covering veils in public. The full Parliament will vote later this month.

Under the proposals, women could face a week in prison or a fine for wearing a veil in public.

There are an estimated 650,000 Muslims in Belgium 6 per cent of the population.

The text of the new law does not specifically mention burkas but makes it illegal for anyone to wear clothing that covers all or most of the face in any public place.

Left-wing MP Denis Ducarme left no doubt the rules were targeting-Muslim extremists.

He said after the vote by the home affairs committee: This sends a very strong signal to radical Islamists.

The French- speaking liberals who have proposed the law argue that an inability to identify people presents a security risk and that the veil is a walking prison for women.

Daniel Bacquelaine, the bills chief promoter, said the ban might also be used against potentially violent demonstrators who covered their faces.

He estimated that only a few hundred women in Belgium wore facial veils, but said it was a rising trend.

The MP said Belgium did not wish to follow the bad examples of Britain and the Netherlands, where he said many Muslims lived in separate communities.

The proposal is expected to become law as early as June as it has the support of all five parties in the coalition government. But opponents may appeal to the European Court of Human Rights.

There have been debates over banning the burka in France, Switzerland and Italy.

This week Frances highest administrative body said a full burka ban, which is supported by all political parties, could violate the French constitution and European law.

Brussels has been linked to Islamic extremist terror operations a number of times since September 11. In 2003, 18 men were convicted of involvement in a terror cell with links to Al Qaeda.

Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
And this is all done in the name of protecting the rights and dignity of women. But no one ever asks the women themselves what they want.
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Formo
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15 years ago
I had to look up what the crap a burka was.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
It's burqa. The spelling "burka" annoys me, because it doesn't accurately represent the true pronunciation of the word.

But then, a lot of American media outlets still persist in spelling bin Laden's name "Osama."

Also, burqa is only really worn in Afghanistan, so I wonder if what they're really trying to ban is niqab. It's possible that there are a lot of Afghani immigrants in Belgium, I suppose.
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Wade
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15 years ago
Aren't the Belgians the ones that are still mad about them being called "French" fries?

Or was that Tuesday*?

(*obscure "literary" reference that probably only Foster will get.)
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
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15 years ago
Who cares HOW it is spelled??? Or "Osama" for that matter.
BOTH should be done away with.
Thats only my humble opinion though.
I don't care if someone spells something wrong, as long as they got their point/idea across.
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Pack93z
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15 years ago
Why not allow them to wear what ever they freaking want?

If it offends you.. don't freaking look.

Have someone pass a law in the states outlawing baseball caps (BTW... that would turn many into Marine like pissed off clones.. lol).. it seems just as silly to me.

Cultural clothing shouldn't be outlawed.. IMO.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
On what basis should they be banned from wearing the burqa if they want to, Alan? Did you know there's a big movement among American Muslim women right now to voluntarily take up wearing hijaab? It's not run by the men -- it's the women leading the way. Who are we to tell them not to do this? (Especially since the Bible also says women should be covered!) Is religious freedom something only to be accorded Christians and when it's convenient for us?
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Dulak
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15 years ago

On what basis should they be banned from wearing the burqa if they want to, Alan? Did you know there's a big movement among American Muslim women right now to voluntarily take up wearing hijaab? It's not run by the men -- it's the women leading the way. Who are we to tell them not to do this? (Especially since the Bible also says women should be covered!) Is religious freedom something only to be accorded Christians and when it's convenient for us?

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



lol no but when regular peeps cant wear stuff because its deemed not acceptable but people can dress head to toe in black with only their eye sockets showing because thats their religion ie thats the problem. Least I think thats it.

alot of anti PC here in the UK imo ... I was looking for a room to rent in a community with the majority of middle eastern population and I was descriminated against ie was either hung up on or told they dont rent to white people <<< was quite lame.
Every middle eastern place I called and asked about their room for rent I got the above.

back to the burka subject thou - I feel sorry for the women that have to wear that whole garb - hot as bleep out there and they are dressed like ninjas with many layers ...
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago

Who cares HOW it is spelled???

"Cheesey" wrote:



Because "burkha" probably has a very different meaning from "burqa," since they're pronounced differently and the phonemes of Arabic are extremely sensitive (i.e., English speakers often can't tell the difference between different sounds).

By the way, why has no one addressed my point that many of these women voluntarily choose this garb? Stop feeling sorry for them. The burqa isn't a sign of "female repression" or any other Western-feminist bullshit term. It's something they choose to wear as an expression of female pride. If women felt so oppressed over there, they would have revolted long ago, just as women did in the West.

For those of you who think the burqa is functionally equivalent to a steel collar and chain, consider the fact that before we invaded Iraq, women walked around the streets of Baghdad unaccompanied in blue jeans and t-shirts. Now anywhere they go they have to be on the arm of a man and fully covered from head to toe. Guess we didn't do the women of Iraq any favors, eh?
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Wade
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15 years ago
I guess I'm the only L. E. Modesitt, Jr. reader here.

When I saw the "burkha" reference in the title, I thought it was referring to a really spicy curried goat dish.

One I've always wanted to try, but have never had a goat. 🙂
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Packers_Finland
15 years ago
What the hell? Why would you not allow people to wear what they want. It's not like female opression is a big deal in fucking Belgium.
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dfosterf
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15 years ago

I guess I'm the only L. E. Modesitt, Jr. reader here.

When I saw the "burkha" reference in the title, I thought it was referring to a really spicy curried goat dish.

One I've always wanted to try, but have never had a goat. :)

"Wade" wrote:



I have a mainstream grocery store purchase for you.

"Tastee Choice" (frozen food section)

Shrimp Curry with Porotta

"A mild shrimp Curry served with traditional Indian bread"

"Premium skillet meal"

The bread is dead balls accurate. I spice it up with some crushed red pepper, add some shrimp, separate out the provided shrimp and pan sear both with butter and some old bay, stick back in the mix, and put it all over whatever rice ain't moving around here--a tad bit too much curry for me personally without the (surprisingly) not provided rice.

Give one a shot. I used to steal/share chow from a Pakistani liaison guy who's wife I would have liked to marry for the cooking alone. This is a thoroughly reasonable facsimile.
Cheesey
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15 years ago
OK....here is why.
It covers the complete face.
Thus, it can be used to hide the identity of someone that may drop off a bomb somewhere.
I can't walk into a bank in June wearing a ski mask.
If a woman WANTS to wear one of those around her home, that's fine with me. But if they want to go to stores or other public places in America, then they can't "hide" behind religious freedom if it puts the public in possible danger.
Again, just my opinion.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago

OK....here is why.
It covers the complete face.
Thus, it can be used to hide the identity of someone that may drop off a bomb somewhere.
I can't walk into a bank in June wearing a ski mask.
If a woman WANTS to wear one of those around her home, that's fine with me. But if they want to go to stores or other public places in America, then they can't "hide" behind religious freedom if it puts the public in possible danger.
Again, just my opinion.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Then err on the side of Freedom.

We should be able to walk into a bank wearing a ski mask. Legalize that. Allow everyone to cover their faces everywhere.

I'd much rather err on the side of Freedom.

I actually would prefer to be able to drive down the road with my face covered. This country is losing privacy fast. I think it's a step in the right direction.

And yes, I'm serious.
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Packers_Finland
15 years ago

OK....here is why.
It covers the complete face.
Thus, it can be used to hide the identity of someone that may drop off a bomb somewhere.
I can't walk into a bank in June wearing a ski mask.
If a woman WANTS to wear one of those around her home, that's fine with me. But if they want to go to stores or other public places in America, then they can't "hide" behind religious freedom if it puts the public in possible danger.
Again, just my opinion.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Here you are complaining Obama is taking your liberties away, and now you support this craziness?

And it just pisses me off that immediatly when we are talking about covering oneselfs face, the word terrorist pops up. It's been like 8 years since 9/11, MOVE ON.

Note: I'm not trying to downplay anything, but I think if you read my post you get my point. The rasicm towards middle eastern people, hell any kind of racism, is one of the things I hate most. Not that I interpreted your post as racist, just trying to put some disclaimers here and there.
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Formo
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15 years ago
Personally, I could care less if they wore on their faces/bodies. But at the same time, they shouldn't be surprised to feel like they are being 'judged' by the judgemental. It's like the theme song from Married With Children.. ..."You can't have one without the other"

And maybe you CAN have one without the other.. Doesn't mean you can't expect the other. Which they probably should. I mean, the nation WAS attacked by a radical group of Muslims.
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Wade
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15 years ago

OK....here is why.
It covers the complete face.
Thus, it can be used to hide the identity of someone that may drop off a bomb somewhere.
I can't walk into a bank in June wearing a ski mask.
If a woman WANTS to wear one of those around her home, that's fine with me. But if they want to go to stores or other public places in America, then they can't "hide" behind religious freedom if it puts the public in possible danger.
Again, just my opinion.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Then err on the side of Freedom.

We should be able to walk into a bank wearing a ski mask. Legalize that. Allow everyone to cover their faces everywhere.

I'd much rather err on the side of Freedom.

I actually would prefer to be able to drive down the road with my face covered. This country is losing privacy fast. I think it's a step in the right direction.

And yes, I'm serious.

"Cheesey" wrote:



I'm with zombie.

No one is entitled to see my face. If members of a society need to provide courtroom-quality identification at all public times, that society is well on the way to oblivion. Meaningful "society" cannot survive with that level of mistrust.

That way lies Britain with its eight gazillion video cameras.

That way lies the Patriot Act and totally non-ironic acceptance of a department called "homeland security."

Oh, wait. We're already there, aren't we?

:xcensoredx:
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Who cares if a burqa covers the face of someone who is carrying a bomb? Once they've blown themselves up, they won't have a face for identification purposes anyway. I can hide a bomb vest under my leather jacket without wearing any sort of face covering and no one will ever notice. Exposing my face will not make me any less of a threat. In fact, I would argue that a covered face is more likely to draw attention to a person, particularly in a Westernized country. A smart bomber would attempt to look as inconspicuous as possible.
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
I like what Wade said and my absolute worst nightmare would be if we ended up like the English. They live in a politically correct police state, worst of all worlds. And their food is awful.

We need MORE Freedom and MORE Privacy in this country, not less. Terrorists schmerrorists. They seriously don't scare me. Likelihood of being killed by a terrorist is something like 1/1000th of being killed by a bad driver in this country, even after 9/11 happened.

I wish Americans would have some faith in the American people. I certainly do. Historically, we've managed to survive much worse.

As for Europe, I don't support the route their going but that's their problem.
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